If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    5,591
    And the WSR board is not the only one that tries to avoid being held to account.
     
    35B and The Dainton Banker like this.
  2. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    4,287
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Wasn't it meant to be an urgent P-Way related use at the behest of the ORR .............which morphed into a petting zoo ...........which then became something secret before ultimately becoming a short term lease to the WSSRT ?
     
    Yachtie and 35B like this.
  3. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    5,591
    As I said a few pages back, WSR management speak with forked tongue.
     
  4. Muzza

    Muzza New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    182
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Mareeba, Qld, Australia
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Would you consider it treason or mutiny when a government changes at a democratic general election?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    The Dainton Banker likes this.
  5. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    27,429
    Likes Received:
    26,567
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    ...or an attempt is made to use procedure to achieve a change?

    What happened with the former WSSRT was sharp practice, but it was entirely within the organisation's rules and the intent was clearly declared.

    I'm also reminded that, whatever the fate of mutineers, the general practice was that those mutinied against would also be removed from command, having demonstrated their inability to lead.
     
  6. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,685
    Likes Received:
    5,762
    Interestingly, there is a piece in the latest railway magazine. One of the standout bits was this - IMG_2956.jpeg
    Guessing they don’t need the £5 million then?…
     
  7. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,685
    Likes Received:
    5,762
    The article in RM also speaks of the biggest single change (under a headline of “West Somerset is putting the torrid times behind it”) that has led to it apparently being the best year in a decade, JJP says when asked what the biggest single change is -“We’ve cracked the culture - to deliver a happy and sustainable railway”. So in this case instead of the mutinied captain standing aside he’s overseen a revolution instead it would seem.
     
  8. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    27,429
    Likes Received:
    26,567
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I hope that he’s right, but there’s a history of bosses saying how good things are only to be left high and dry by events.

    I hope for the sake of the railway this won’t be part of that tradition.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    johnofwessex likes this.
  9. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    18,652
    Likes Received:
    12,084
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    History is always written by the victors, not the vanquished, Jones- Pratt may have won, but at what cost? how does the rest of the movement now view the WSR? how do grand awarding bodies view the WSR? I can't help but think this was a fight the chairman wanted, or those with the chairmans ear wanted, to silence people they did not like, to remove dissenters, who kept asking awkward questions, first it was the S&D Trust, then it was those who posed a threat to those who enjoyed the revolving door of power between the steam trust, and company.
     
  10. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,685
    Likes Received:
    5,762
    Well perhaps unsurprisingly given what appears to be a quite remarkable turnaround, JJP states that other railways have approached them for advice.
     
  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    27,047
    Likes Received:
    61,058
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Of course, that was dependent on the mutinied-against captain eventually having to return to Port and face his masters in the Admiralty! The WSR example was more akin to a boardroom power struggle: someone won, someone lost, but there is little onus on the "winner" to then reflectively stand down as atonement for allowing the struggle to have taken place at all.

    Well yes, but he's hardly likely to say "look, we had our cultural problems, and scratch below the surface and they are still seething away". Whatever your view of those times, one role of a Chairman is to act as a cheerleader for the organisation - at least in public. That includes giving the impression that it is a railway worth visiting, and volunteering at.

    Again, the fact that some parts of an organisation may not be perfect does not mean that there are no elements worth sharing. It would be surprising if the Chairman of a company that is - when all is said and done - operating the longest standard gauge heritage line in the country didn't have some points of expertise worth listening to.

    I don't hold a candle for the current management. But equally, it is wrong to assume that anything that isn't white must necessarily be black. Railways are large organisations, with many people and many facets; it would be unusual to think that in every area they were universally poor. I've commented quite extensively on matters of governance and communications, in part because those are areas close to my own expertise, and where I can see how the WSR frequently stumbles. But as a counter example, my external perception is that they seem to punch above their weight in loco matters, with locos seeming to put up big annual mileages, which in that area at least would seem to me an indication that they are running a very effective department. So I think it is entirely rational to be bewildered at some of the communications emanating from Minehead, while simultaneously thinking they are getting some aspects of running a railway spot on.

    Tom
     
  12. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,685
    Likes Received:
    5,762
    I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick Tom with my posts.

    On the point of the chairs comments on culture I agree he is indeed unlikely to say different although I thought it was interesting that he saw that as the main driver, especially given some of the comments on the forum regarding this and I don’t just mean the negative ones, there were also some positive ones a few posts back which seem to echo the bit I quoted (it’s hard to break the article down without ending up copying the lot!!!).

    Regarding other railways approaching for advice, you are right and I to would like to think that even if everything is not rosy there is still something to be gained from talking to them, which is why in reply to Martin I said perhaps unsurprisingly, in fact it’s good to hear that if things are heading in the right direction and that engagement is taking place which should benefit the wider movement.

    I also agree on your other comments - yes the railway does well with its loco fleet, another area that I think they are doing well with is the C&W department which has been turning out some high quality work for a while and not just for the WSR but other railways as well (the Pontypool & Blaenavon being one).

    I also think that the Achilles heal is the general communication, it’s definitely a weak spot with a lack of coherent messages which often are confusing and contradictory or leave unanswered questions which does the railway no favours in all honesty but even on that point it is refreshing to see some engagement with one of the magazines.

    In general it certainly feels like the glass is currently half full rather than half empty though.
     
    35B, Steve and Jamessquared like this.
  13. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,605
    Likes Received:
    5,591
    Sadly the cracking was achieved partly by cracking some (arguably innocent) heads.
     
  14. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    27,429
    Likes Received:
    26,567
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Which is why I worry about whether the culture is genuinely as described, or is actually something less pleasant under the surface, following that cracking of heads.

    I also worry, if the chair's direction proves inappropriate in future, about how well the culture will operate to challenge him if necessary.

    I very much hope for the sake of both WSR and it's people that my fears are misplaced - and likewise anywhere else that has been through traumatic change.
     
  15. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,833
    Likes Received:
    3,888
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    You've obviously not been supporting the WSR for long. I can clearly remember the days when the WSR did indeed state their every p-way activity to at least the members of the WSRA by way of the Journal. There were two P-way gangs and both reported in each issue. That is how you make supporters feel involved and wanting to give money to the railway, not by making excuses for non-communication.
     
    D8568, ghost, RailWest and 5 others like this.
  16. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,380
    Likes Received:
    18,176
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Rubbish

    The WSR Chairman demanded a £20,000 contribution to the winter works programme, which was outside their charitable objects.

    They said ‘no’ and were punished for it by being evicted.

    Dissent results in being told to walk the plank.
     
    The Green Howards and Sunnieboy like this.
  17. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,380
    Likes Received:
    18,176
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    So remarkable, it is completely untrue.

    The has stated in terms in its internal newsletter that is just covering its day-to-day costs. That means investing nothing in the future, continuing to write down the infrastructure and putting nothing away for the serious loco overhauls either due to be paid for (53808) or getting closer on the horizon. Feel free to check the facts with the WSR. Oh, hang on…

    A railway which isn’t afraid of inventing disciplinary charges might be thought to be little troubled about being truthful about its true position.
     
  18. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,807
    Likes Received:
    3,302
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Over the hills and far away
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    A comment which could well be applied to the Lynton & Barnstaple Trust, regretfully.
     
    ghost and RailWest like this.
  19. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,685
    Likes Received:
    5,762
    Honestly, I’m not sure what to think.

    Another two things the article talks about is the recent steam gala and the Quantock Belle. In the Galas case it gives a quantifiable comment that revenue was up 50%. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean the profit was. In the case of the QB he talks about how the railway wanted to sell it at one point but now it’s using three times more than previously, (although a quick glance at the operating schedule and previous years via the Wayback Machine internet archive doesn’t seem to support this claim). That doesn’t mean it translates to it being three times more profitable and of course there could be a situation where it’s less profitable running more trains than it was previously, the reality is that I just don’t know, along with many others. The AGM could be interesting as apparently that is when the corporate structure plan is going to be delivered.

    What I did notice was there seems to be a drive to recruit more paid staff - the article mentions that they are looking for an assistant general manager the money must be coming from somewhere to pay for that. In addition when I looked up the QB stuff I noted that they are looking for s Sales and Marketing manager as well. I did laugh though as there has been much discussion on the lack of communication skills at the WSR and true to form, you are invited to apply to a Sam Eastuagh but then omits any contact details at all!! IMG_2967.png
     
    35B likes this.
  20. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    27,429
    Likes Received:
    26,567
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    An interesting “tell” to see revenue figures quoted, but not profit.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    5944 likes this.

Share This Page