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Vintage Trains - 2021

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Will RL, Dec 16, 2020.

  1. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    On both the last two Saturdays the diesel was essential for operational reasons as well as insurance, but it does seem that the diesel driver applied more power, and more often, than strictly necessary on the way back from Cardiff. We don't know whose decision that was. But anyway, from where I was, about a third of the way down the train, there was plenty of sound from the Castle so I wasn't disappointed.

    I wonder what will happen with the promised double-headers when the Earl is back in action.
     
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  2. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    I suspect for the minority of passengers Diesels matter , for those who want to get to the destination and home on time a little insurance/assistance on the back becomes a good thing

    Secondly for those running vacuum braked stock , insurance especially when away from home in the form of a diesel can be the difference between returning to base or a very large bill
     
  3. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Given that it has happened just once (GB tour ) I wouldn't hold your breath . I also suspect VT may be a little insulted by "proper trains" as will Saphos who often have a tailgunner too
     
  4. free2grice

    free2grice Well-Known Member Friend

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    How would you feel Martin if various preserved railways insisted that you have a diesel pushing like mad at the rear of your photo charters? I’ve always thought that you were trying to recreate ‘proper trains ‘. [WJ]
     
  5. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    please go away and consider just how ill thought out your comment is and come back with an apology
     
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  6. Jamie C. Steel

    Jamie C. Steel New Member

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    Preserved railways don't have delay attribution.
     
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  7. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

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    I think we all understand why diesels are needed for a magnitude of operational reasons ranging from seasonal climatic impact to lack of turning facilities (eg Weymouth). However VT appeared to be going for at least a part supporters model rather than a WCRC/RTC/SD/LSL pure commercial operation model. So I think if promised were made causing people to decide to invest (support) VT and this has now been changed I can see why some may be unhappy. I did not donate so just a bystander.
    Lots of discussion about the SVR changing benefits, is this much different?
    Diesel guys still seem more concerned about alcohol bans though on LSL stock at the moment. Horses for courses I suppose.
     
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  8. free2grice

    free2grice Well-Known Member Friend

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    Think about what I have asked and kindly give me an honest answer to my question. <BJ>
     
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  9. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Apologies but I am not answering the daftest question asked on the forum . Please go away and contemplate the answer
     
  10. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    Gladiator has made a very sensible point in between some rather heated exchanges - VT did go for a fairly substantial share issue and one does wonder whether some who supported it may have expected the new look VT to be similar to the old, which was characterised by diesel-free runs and thus may have legitimate reasons for feeling a bit upset (although at least the Shakespeare Express still seems to be a diesel-free operation now 7029 is back in business.)

    But the wider debate about diesels on the back has been done to death. We all have our opinions and for what it's worth, I would only want to travel on a train with no tail gunner. However, if I (and those of a similar conviction) represented the majority of passengers who book on main line steam specials, the operators would have learnt by now that only 100% steam tours would sell. The fact that this isn't the case is proof that what Sidmouth/Martin said in post #401 is a fair analysis of the steam railtour market as at present. For many of the trains they run, particularly in the southern half of the country, operators prefer to go for an appealing destination where the logistics (for whatever reason) demand a diesel rather than restrict themselves to itineraries - and only during certain months of the year - which ensure that the dreaded "box" can be left behind. It's not what I would like, but that's how they make their living and how loco owners earn their money. My only wish is that all operators who run trains in central and/or southern England could at least run the occasional trip which is specifically marketed as diesel free.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
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  11. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Photo charters don't have passengers who like to get home more or less on time.
     
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  12. MikeParkin65

    MikeParkin65 Member Friend

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    As a potential passenger on VT I'm being put off firstly by lack of times before the day, secondly lack of heating and thirdly the various mechanical and operating issues that have effected recent runs. Some way further down the list the use or not of the Class 47.

    I'm the enthusiast in the house but I want to enjoy these expensive days out with my wife who isnt going to contemplate having to join a train at a time unknown but probably the crack of dawn, sitting in miserable cold followed by searing heat or possibly stuck in a siding half a mile from the start point (or Northampton - take your pick which is worse!) because of some cock up of paperwork or planning.

    VT really need to get their act together quickly. The support for the concept is there with us enthusiasts but we aren't the majority and our custom alone (and VT haven't got mine yet) isnt enough to sustain what they aspire to deliver.
     
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  13. bleeder4

    bleeder4 Member

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    For what's it worth, I was on the Cardiff trip and had an enjoyable day out. I look forward to my next VT trip. The diesel on the back doesn't bother me as much as it would have done a decade ago. 7029 was working hard for much of the day and the soundtrack of a Castle working hard was present quite often. The amount of soot I washed out of my hair in the shower when I got home is also indicative of a steam loco working hard.

    I've learned to tolerate an accompanying diesel as a necessary evil. The world changes and we need to change with it, just like the "heads out of windows" situation. We can't expect tours in 2021 to operate the same way as tours in 2000.
     
  14. Jamie C. Steel

    Jamie C. Steel New Member

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  15. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture

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    A few snippets of 7029 on its run down to Cardiff and its aided run up Hatton.
     
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  16. free2grice

    free2grice Well-Known Member Friend

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    Thank you Martin. Now we know the answer. <BJ>
     
  17. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thing is by applying power the 47 will use more fuel and by extension cost more to run, affecting the bottom line so that decision is either being made for a specific reason or perhaps the powers that be need to be having a word.

    I recall this debate being done to death over the years, in the past there seemed to be various posters who seemed convinced that WCRC attached diesels just to give the diesel a nice day out rather than operational reasoning.
     
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  18. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    I used to support the trains run by Vintage but not now unless guaranteed to be DL free. My choice as it’s a long way to go for me to catch any of their trains. I may book on the second Lickey Banker which ought to be DL free but how will the train be turned at Worcester? Otherwise I will stick to trains which I know will be DL free except for the occasional trip close to home which I treat as a nice day out to a good destination and when I regard any DL free sections as a bonus. I have no problem with pure DL haulage on the main line or indeed on heritage lines eg the class 20 on the MHR recently. Each to his own.
     
  19. free2grice

    free2grice Well-Known Member Friend

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    I entirely agree. We have been blessed over the years with tours hauled by class 40s, 50s, 52s, Deltics .....and I love 'em. I'm very disappointed that Western Champion failed on it's test run recently
    But would I pay good money to be hauled by a class 40 with a 47 diesel pushing from the rear, I think not. <BJ>
     
  20. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture

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    Yes, its been done to death but the debate has resurfaced due to emergence of heavy diesel assistance on a train no one expected to see. I wonder if anyone has ever seen or witnessed before that kind of assistance on a VT excursion. It certainly wasn't in the brochure when the shareholder offer was advertised a few years back. Just fingers crossed they leave the Marches trip alone.
     
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