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Tornado

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Leander's Shovel, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    If you mean out on the tracks, were 71000 or 60700 recorded at over the ton?
     
  2. garth manor

    garth manor Well-Known Member

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    China imports most of its coal, there are many 1000s of jobs in Australia, Russia, Indonesia, S Africa which are indirectly financed by western consumers, India also imports, China does have a plan for net zero and has a better record than most in delivering to plan.
     
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  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Undoubtedly (as you say currently) the case, but China is making seriously big inroads into urban traffic pollution. In one key area, ICE bus fleets are being introduced, or replaced, by clean tech vehicles in numbers which, by western standards, simply boggle the mind. There does remain the very significant issue of pollution due to construction (as here .... just, not on that sort of scale!), though I'm none too well up on the sort of measures (presumably) being taken to address this.

    The Chinese government, for all it's shortcomings, does at least recognise the issues and is attempting to ameliorate the problems which come with a growing economy*. For my money, the bigger problem is Brazil, where the current federal government seems unduly beholden to the money of US evangelicals, of that sort who seem to have stuff all to do with anything most of us would recognise as religion, effectively merely fronting for the ugliest extremes of corporate capitalism, where deforestation continues apace and ill-considered, unnecessarily damaging agro-industrial monoculture holds sway.

    *A couple of years back, I sat through part of a televised CPC conference (sad, I know), where one of those 'five year plans' was being outlined (in full and minute attention to endless detail) and there was a major focus on climate and pollutants. The only part I've really kept an eye on has been the transport sector, where aspirations do actually seem to be on target.

    Anyway .... Why's this on the Tornado thread? :confused:
     
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  4. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    From the GCR website today....
    A1 Pacific 60163 ‘Tornado’ To Visit GCR
    Published November 18, 2021 | By Dan Bowler


    [​IMG]Following Tornado’s temporary withdrawal from mainline services due to wheel flats, the steam engine; which was the first new locomotive to be built in the UK since Evening Star 92220 was built in 1960, is set to return to the Great Central. Shortly after being built, Tornado first visited the GCR for high-speed testing in 2008 ahead of its launch onto the mainline.

    The locomotive should arrive in the coming days after our Last Hurrah Gala as road transport allows and will operate on a selected number of dates into the 2022 season. Keep a close eye on our website and social media for updates on when this special guest loco will be running.

    The locomotive is expected to leave the Great Central in advance of our Winter Steam Gala on the 28th - 30th January where we are hoping for two other guest locomotives as well as up to 7 locomotives from home fleet to be in service.

    60163 Will arrive and operate with thanks to the A1 Steam Trust - To find out more about the trust and Tornado visit their website A1Steam.com


    Posted in Main Line, Main Line Xtra, Press Release
     
  5. Davo

    Davo Well-Known Member

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    So am I right in saying seeing this on my newsfeed from rail advent, 60163 tornado is going to have to be withdrawn immediately for all 8 of its tender tyres and all 6 driver wheels cos the current 1,s are worn down to nearly scrap size and the current tyres on tornado cant be turned on a wheel lathe but fortunately all or most of the tyres are at buckfastleigh in storage ready to be fitted, however despite as well 60163 having it's new boiler fitted off D.B.C. and middle valve chest liner revamped does this mean it will still be ready for July 2022 now extra work is needed. Is tornado still running at the Last hurrah gala then. Before its overhaul commences? And how will Decembers different T.O.C. 2021 mainline schedule of tours with 60163 be amended possibly 60103 6233 and 35018 taking the tours instead or if not Diesel hauled or cancelled such as R.T.C. Xmas white rose and Cambridge via Lincoln to York tours and Edinburgh Xmas market? and I'm sorry I got upset dident know all this info about 60163 why it couldent be used on today's kings X York. Now I know why;)
    Davo 56F
     
  6. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    For my part, I'm surprised that 6003s tender wheel tyres are seemingly worn down to scrapping limit already. Has 60007 or 60009 ever needed their tender wheels re-tyring in their preservation lifetime? I can't recall either having been reported as done, though I could be wrong and 60007 has run a lot of miles on the NYMR, which is relatively hard on tyres.
     
  7. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    Yes with 60007, at the last overhaul, not this one...
     
  8. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Wheel flats happen but running to the wire over usable tyre depth doesn't sound all that smart to me.
     
  9. NeilL

    NeilL Well-Known Member

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    She has new tyres ready to be fitted at the overhaul next year so was in the last 6 weeks of running on these tyres. Sounds like perfect planning to me and would have been fine without leaves on the line.
     
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  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    They are either in spec or not - if they were in spec, what's the problem with continued running?

    The perfect scenario is when everything runs out at once. If instead you have, say, two year's life in the tyres when a boiler lift and major overhaul is required, you have the awkward dilemma of whether to scrap two years of useable life (which is quite valuable); or do the overhaul, run for two years, then have to bring the loco in to get the wheels retyred (not a quick job) while the boiler life is ticking away (which is expensive in lost revenue). Sounds to me like they got it judged just about right given the imminent withdrawal for overhaul; the wheels can be away for new tyres while other jobs, notably the boiler, are attended to.

    The logistics of retyring a wheel set is not quick, because there are so few places that can do it. There is a common model in heritage running that tries to minimise cash expenditure at the expense of time, but it is in my mind often penny-wise, pound-foolish. Returning a loco to traffic with a known, time-consuming, defect that will require significant attention before the ticket is up (say having two years of the life left; or a tender tank estimated to last only another three years) is generally a poor idea in my mind, though frequently ends up being forced by circumstances.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
  11. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Careful now, your MNLPS slip is showing. ;)
    The tyres were fine for main line running but if you've read the A1SLT announcement, turning them to remove the flats would have taken them below the limit for use on main line. Doesn't sound like taking it to the wire to me.
     
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  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    The A1SLT update is clear that they have no margin of error to do this following that slip. However, even if they were on the limit of spec, then it may have been preferable to withdraw from contracts now rather than have a high risk of being unable to fulfil them if they deteriorate further. In context, it's not just money that will matter, but also the volunteers and their commitments.
     
  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Fair point. I guess that the tipping point was that the loco decided to pick up its wheels for whatever reason. What I was trying to say, and I clearly expressed it badly, was that if a further turning would take the tyre beyond life then that leaves little room for manoeuvre and is 'close to the wire' decision making. So, for example, whilst I know that I can run the tyres on my car down to 1.6 mm I wouldn't choose to do that for safety reasons.

    But I take completely the point by @Jamessquared about synchronising replacements to the same maintenance window that is really quite difficult to achieve.
     
  14. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    But they weren't running the tyres down to the limit as they were planned to be replaced shortly. It's the flats that are the flies in the ointment. The arbiters of safety in tyres will be NR and those who inspect them to ensure they meet NR specs. I'd wager there's a margin for safety built into that spec anyway.
     
  15. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    Agree, a couple of years ago 35028 failed an FTR exam due to a fault with a tender wheel tyre and had to go down to the Bluebell for rectification. It’s possible to plan for routine replacements and maintenance but sometimes the unexpected will come up and bite you
    and that’s what’s happened here
     
  16. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    The legal safe minimum tyre depth on my car is 1.6 mm, I run them well down to just short of 1.6 (maybe 2 mm), why should it be any different for a locomotive ? OR, to put it another way, WHEN should locomotive tyres be replaced ?
    Me ? if a tyre is usable and safe and legal.............run it.
     
  17. Foxhunter

    Foxhunter Member

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    Tom's analysis is spot on. Bear in mind that Tornado was due out of traffic for an overhaul a year ago but, with the lack of trains during Covid it made sense to extend that to this winter. Flats are a fact of life on the mainline and tender flats are the most easy to acquire, especially when it is getting low on water and the braking force is reduced.

    Foxy
     
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  18. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    For the loco to run on the GC, even for a little while before being withdrawn for overhaul, presumably the tyres will have be turned to remove the flats, taking them below the limit for main line but still presumably just OK for 25 mph on the GCR. But that does seem like extra work, first turning them and then, soon afterwards, replacing them.
     
  19. davidcarbonis

    davidcarbonis New Member

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    Perhaps not too much extra work/effort as there is a wheel lathe at St Philips Marsh HSTD, where the locomotive currently is, which can turn the tender wheels' tyres (and those for the leading bogie and cartazzi axle wheels).
     
  20. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

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    Yorkshire thrift....
     
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