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The Welshman No 1207

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by yec2521, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. yec2521

    yec2521 New Member

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    Hi Guys.

    I'm involved with an industrial loco group based at Barrow Hill Roundhouse. We are currently custodian of an 0-6-0 saddle tank locomotive owned by the National coal mining museum. The locomotive is Manning Wardle, No 1207 "The Welshman" of 1890. Unfortunately due to circumstances beyond our control we now need to find a new home for the locomotive. Are there any groups out there that may be interested in taking on this locomotive. "The Welshman" is quite an historic ...and celebrity locomotive. A restoration was started on it in the 1980's at Chatterley Whitfield museum in Staffordshire. It got to the point where the boiler was overhauled and had new tubes. However the museum closed soon after and the overhaul came to a halt. There are also issues with the crank axle which mean significant repairs or replacement may be needed we did however manage to find the whereabouts a replacement before the project had to stop. All the significant parts are with the loco such as motion, valve gear, brake rigging etc. It would make an excellent project for a group looking for a medium sized challenge. ( it's not a Barry wreck but does require some thinking about) It would also be a useful addition to the running fleet of a railway. As we said the loco is on loan and a loan agreement would need to be reached with the National mining museum. Our group would also be willing to make a contribution to transport costs for any group interested in taking on "The Welshman" as a project. If interested please PM me.

    Richard
     
  2. mickpop

    mickpop Resident of Nat Pres

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    Martin Perry and 26D_M like this.
  3. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    The three which spring to my mind where a chance a good home will be the Foxfield Railway, Embsay & Bolton Abbey and the Middleton Railway as they are all into industrial steam.
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Middleton would love it and has been offered it more times than I can remember and it's been declined the same number of times. The big problem with this loco is that it effectively has no wheels so can only be moved with the aid of a crane. The axles have been NDT's and found to be flawed and an angle grinder has been deployed on at least one. Some of the wheel tyres have also been removed. The boiler is fairly good, though, having been overhauled as part of its restoration.
    It is one loco that needs preserving as it is almost unique but anyone taking it on needs a good funding package in place from the word go.
     
  5. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    So it is in far worse condition for the wheels it sounded like. I should had looked on the Preserved Railway Stocklist first.

    Yes it is one of the very few long boiler engines still left, far more worthy case than so many other engines, but as an industrial most people aren't interested in them.
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Looking at the photo on there they have managed to put it on four wheels so it is moveable. I thought that wasn't possible but seems like I was wrong. Still a challenge, though.
     
  7. yec2521

    yec2521 New Member

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    HI Guys.

    As much as i appreciate the opinions some of those voiced by Steve as fact are actually wrong. I'm not getting into a flamewar on here but the loco IS on 4 of her 6 wheels. We had some hardwood axleboxes made so that she could at least be displayed on wheels. The crankaxle is damaged but from the NDT we had done we understand these to be from the time of manufacture rather than through work. As it says on my OP we have discovered the whereabouts of an unused crank axle that will fit The Welshman. We have had interest from some parties but inaccurate facts and opinions like those voiced help neither us nor the future of the engine.

    Richard
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2015
  8. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Don't you think that your original post was a little uninformative?
    "it's not a Barry wreck but does require some thinking about"
    That, rightly or hopefully wrongly gave this reader the impression that the loco might well be dismantled and scattered across various containers with parts missing.
     
  9. GWRArry

    GWRArry New Member

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    Richard,

    What is the timescale for removal from Barrow Hill?

    How much of the loco is missing? You say the wheel sets are currently within a hardwood axlebox for display purposes - I take it you don't have the axleboxes for the loco?

    What timescale were you and your group thinking about as a target for return to steam before other circumstances arose?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    GWRman suggested that Middleton would be a good home for the loco and, on the face of it, this was a sensible suggestion. It was because of this that I felt it necessary to kill the idea by saying why not.
    It's quite a while since I last looked at 1207 but I don't think I said anything basically wrong. Although there are forging laps in the axles (and I'd probably have no real worry about them, depending on their exact circumstances) it runs in my memory that the crank axle has signs of fatigue cracks on the crank/web interface. Although I didn't mention it, it also ran in my memory that the axleboxes and other components were missing from the time of its outdoor storage at Caphouse. The museum did the loco no favours by just dumping such as slide bars and other machined parts out in the open (despite my protestations.) There's also no mention of the state of the tyres and the fact that at least one has been cut off the wheel centre. There were some Cl.20 tyres available but I don't know whether they would be usable, or not. On the plus side, I believe the boiler to be in good condition, having had work done on it in the early years of its restoration. The existence of a suitable crank axle can only be a bonus. (I'm intrigued as to where this has come from.)
    I do hope that some organisation does take on this loco as it is a particular favourite of mine but it would be folly to leave people in ignorance as to its condition. It would also be more attractive if the NCMM were willing to give up ownership.
     
  11. yec2521

    yec2521 New Member

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    Fair enough.

    Unfortunately the NCMM are unable to give up ownership of both this loco and YEC2521 due to various paperwork and legal issues. I know i've asked the question about a million times. Off the top of my head i can't remember what parts are there and what are not. I'm waiting for some inventory photos and list that we did a few years ago to make there way back to me.

    The timescale for removal from BH is as soon as possible really. We never had a timescale for the restoration as it never properly got going to be honest. Our main efforts were concentrated on YEC2521. If anyone is genuinely interested send me a pm with your email address and i'll email you back.

    Cheers

    Rich
     
  12. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Is there any reason why it couldn't go to Middleton for static display if it is that important a survivor?
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Space is a major one. Time to make it fit for display is another. However, the wheel/axle situation is also fundamental. Solve these and Middleton would no doubt take it. No need for it to be steamable. However, if the latter two problems were solved, I think there would be other takers, too.
     

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