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The Royal Scot 30th May

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by RalphW, May 29, 2009.

  1. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Video now up, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kC-aCSjBSI
    Not one of my best though.. 8-[
     
  2. Stepney32655

    Stepney32655 New Member Account Suspended

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    As I was up on Grayrigg Bank for the Duchess on Saturday morning, I naturally took a special interest in viewing, on this thread, what pictures others had managed of the trip. I eventually came to your long tele-lens shot at Acton Bridge and soon realised why you had suggested it was not one of your best ... although, otherwise, I felt it would have had the potential to have been rather impressive.

    Whilst attempting to moderate my language to an appropriate level, I am nevertheless forced to observe that one of the main problems with fotting from station platforms is that there is ALWAYS some selfish, inconsiderate, brain-dead b*****d who walks into the shot at the very last moment ... usually to take a cr*p shot with a mobile phone, or something that he has to hold up in the air in front of him because it doesn't even have a viewfinder!

    I suspect that I would be 'preaching to the converted' if I suggested that arranging photo line-ups, and everyone deciding beforehand precisely where they are going to stand, might mean nothing to such morons. But, yes, there actually are one or two out there who are totally incapable of comprehending that the serious photographer really does not want them occupying the major portion of his picture. I noticed, Ralph, that you tried to pan your camera slightly to the right to avoid the idiot who walked into your shot, but that he just kept on coming. Now, let me guess ... you were there waiting well before he arrived! If that was the case - and I suspect it was - need I say any more?

    Am I a Nat-Pres 'whinger'? Am I really no better than some of the obsessionals on this site who repeatedly rant on about "Trespass" to no-one in particular, but repeatedly point the finger at their fellow enthusiasts rather than at those whom they really should worry about? Well, yes and no ... but everyone has had many such experiences and the problem is increasing.

    One of the greatest issues with linesiding today is that Joe Public has become too well-informed and now turns out en-masse to witness every steam special that runs. Even if he doesn't know about a train beforehand, the mere sight of a line of gricers stood on a railway bridge or a station platform, has the effect of attracting those of his ilk (and his noisy off-spring) like flies around a cow-pat. And he just isn't capable of comprehending the safety issues in being present so close to high-speed main lines.
     
  3. spindizzy

    spindizzy Member

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    palace gates

    At least I got it right about the Low Water Pressure \:D/

    I'm not a timer on these trains so I would consider an 8 minute wait for a path as very good indeed.
     
  4. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

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    Christ Ralph it's a good job there wasn't a mail coach on the return run or you'd have been sorted, that was great.

    As for shooting from stations I usually avoid them like swine flu, too many inconsiderates, give me trespass any day. :-D




    For the anally retentive that was a joke.
     
  5. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Thanks Toni, I was just over the yellow line but not much. That is a much better shot in the dark though, don't get the crowds then either.
    I agree stations are not the best places but in this area it's one of the few places where you can get reasonably close and under the wires. So many of the long shots are so overgrown that you only get brief glimpses.
     
  6. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    Please don't start them off on trespass again! Joke or not! :smt071
     
  7. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    But, just like you, Joe public has every right to "turn out" to watch things. Steam on the main line isn't just turned out for the sole benefit of photographers. People have aright to stand at the lineside and watch these things. I am a railway enthusiast and I do not do photography. Perhaps you would be kind enough to tell me where I can go to see these things and where I should stand. I hasten to add, I would never knowingly spoil a photographers shot or film. Live and let live, it's not a perfect world.
     
  8. palace gates

    palace gates Guest

    Spindizzy,
    Sorry.I had most of the message in my head and you comment just triggered it off.
    My main concern is the fact that it is takeing to long to take water going south at Carnforth.At present the schedule for these runs is quite good.If they keep running late someone might say that the schedule is not possible and increase the timings.I understand that the Dutchess has two inlets for receiving water and that if both are in use you can get 750 gallons loaded in one minute with a water tanker and pumps.There is nothing worse than standing around going nowhere for 50 minuates.Schedules on the East Coast have got better with water stops being reduced.Can we have the same treatment on the West Coast
    please.
     
  9. 42296

    42296 New Member Account Suspended

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    Re: The Royal Scot 30th May / Trespassing

    That ‘Victor/Brian’ feels he does "never knowingly spoil a photographers shot or film" is, indeed, commendable and one could only wish that absolutely everyone shared such sentiments. Notwithstanding that, in his suggestion "Live and let live, it's not a perfect world", he did, however, come close to the real message that ‘Stepney32655’ was trying to get across, but one which he appeared to have completely missed.

    It is, in actual fact, BECAUSE so many more members of the general public are congregating nowadays at vantage points close to running lines, that risks are being taken by these people. Unlike the majority of ‘linesiders’, many are quite unaware of, if not totally oblivious to, the dangers in standing too close to tracks upon which almost silent trains could be approaching at speeds well in excess of 100mph!

    I sometimes despair when, having set myself up in a photo position, those very people who, in ‘Victor’s’ view, “have a right to stand at the lineside”, do turn up in their droves and swarm, often with their children, across railway property and into places where they place themselves at considerable danger. In respect of the “idiot” who walked in front of ‘Ralph5407’ at Acton Bridge, I can but observe that, in doing so, BOTH gentlemen concerned did appear to be well to the WRONG side of the yellow safety line that was painted onto the platform there for very valid reasons and, not only that, but they had their backs to oncoming traffic!

    I was appalled by this, particularly as the person who walked towards the platform edge appeared to be a bone-fide enthusiast and not just the more regular phone-camera-toting buffoon who has just staggered out of the pub, seen the ‘gallery’ and saw an opportunity to impress his mates with his supposed David Bailey ‘expertise’ … before then deleting their ‘masterpiece’ image again once back in the pub! Believe me, it happens (I’ve seen it so many times), but such people, so recklessly unaware of the hazards, are possibly another reason why the non-travelling public is now being discouraged from visiting such places as station platforms.

    ‘Swiss Toni’, in observing, “As for shooting from stations I usually avoid them like swine flu, too many inconsiderates, give me trespass any day”, he clearly expresses the exasperation that many others feel today. Certainly, there are those who claim that lineside photographers very, very rarely are killed, or even injured, and I would tend to subscribe to that view. There are others (indeed, some members of this very forum) who argue/complain that donning a high-vis vest doesn’t provide an unalienable right to freedom of access, and, in principle, I would go along with that also.

    However, perhaps in my naivety, I still believe that the majority (and I emphasise the ‘majority’) of serious photographers are sensible in how they conduct themselves. Yes, I put on a high-vis myself whenever I go trackside, but even though this bears the name of the track access company for whom I once worked, I do so NOT to impress people into thinking that I am there officially, but MERELY to let train drivers know that I AM there … and that, in wearing such safety items and appropriately acknowledging audible warnings, I do appear to possess at least an inkling of the dangers. Yes, I know, I am completely out of order in so-acting and God forgive that it could ever come to pass, but how many members of Joe Public would be so safety conscious as to think of doing that … or to think of the poor train driver as he hurtled towards someone at a three-figure speed, not knowing what the outcome was to be?

    With steam now appearing to be with us on the main-line for the foreseeable future, so far as the general public is concerned, let’s but hope that the curiosity element for them gradually subsides …. along with the complaints.

    I now hand over to the 'nitpickers' ...........
     
  10. Mike30A

    Mike30A Well-Known Member

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    Re: The Royal Scot 30th May / Trespassing

    Without wishing to open up the hornets nest again on trespassing, what gives you the right to go lineside - even if you previously worked for a rail organisation, and claim to act responsibly?? Indeed, why do you need to??
     
  11. 42296

    42296 New Member Account Suspended

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    Re: The Royal Scot 30th May / Trespassing

    Like a red flag to a bull!!

    What ... why do I need to go lineside ... or why do I need to act responsibly?

    That aside, I am not even going to rise to your 'nitpicking', and I think that even your avotar more than adequately explains to us all why you are the sort of person that we shouldn't waste our time arguing with. I put across my own perspective, perhaps merely to fill in a few more of the hitherto unspoken aspects of the matter ... and if you have a problem with that - tough!!
     
  12. Mike30A

    Mike30A Well-Known Member

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    Re: The Royal Scot 30th May / Trespassing

    [quote="42296Like a red flag to a bull!!

    What ... why do I need to go lineside ... or why do I need to act responsibly?

    That aside, I am not even going to rise to your 'nitpicking', and I think that even your avotar more than adequately explains to us all why you are the sort of person that we shouldn't waste our time arguing with. I put across my own perspective, perhaps merely to fill in a few more of the hitherto unspoken aspects of the matter ... and if you have a problem with that - tough!![/quote]

    I had not intended to respond to your dribble, other than to say that unless you posess pyschic powers you have absoulutely no idea what sort of person I am. Then again the tone of your reply to a straitforward question says a lot about you sir.
     
  13. Stepney32655

    Stepney32655 New Member Account Suspended

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    Well said, 42296! Your outspokeness should be a lesson to all of us!

    We all accept that trespassing by the more reckless and irresponsible members of the community is, always has been, and always will be, a problem, but, let's be honest, no-one is ever going to take the slightest notice of the constant armchair crusade, over relatively minor issues, from the likes of '30A' and his/her ilk!

    It is acknowledged that the perspective from one of the preserved railways, where the problem does appear to be far more serious, has now been adequately and appropriately addressed within a completely separate thread on this site and that railway is very clearly expected to be duty-bound to take what steps it feels necessary to alleviate the problem. It has, however, also GOT to be said that such a continued tirade about such matters within the public domain will ultimately do no-one any good. Indeed, it must be underlined (yet again - this is not for the first time!) that should the powers-that-be ever get round to reading such obsessional and arguably over-sensationalised rants as those that some are posting, then it is more than possible that the future of main-line steam might be cast into serious doubt!

    In other words, SHUT UP!
     
  14. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

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    Sorry!

    :smt014
     
  15. Mike30A

    Mike30A Well-Known Member

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    As a member of several preserved railways / lineside pass holder,and someone who endeavours to behave sensibly and courteously when out photting mainline steam; I would not consider myself to be a so called armchair crusader, but have as much right as you 2 gentleman (if thats what you are?) to express an opinion.
    Anyway, I do not have the appetite for any further dialogue on this subject with you or your male/female ilk, SO ILL SHUT UP AND TRUST YOU WILL AS WELL.

    (and apologies to other members for creating further unwanted dialogue on the "t" subject.)
     
  16. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    I am not a regualr "linesider" - I am usually too busy working a a heritage railway, but may I make a couple of points (well, 3 actually)

    - Even if a railman (person?) is the holder of a current Personal Track Safety certificate, this only allows access to the trackside when necessary as part of his/her duties and in most cases this would not include photography, especially whilst off duty (quite apart from whether being lineside actually improves the photo, which generally I would suggest it does not).
    - Just as there seems to be an ability on this forum to guess whether people are armchair enthusiasts or not on here (based on whether they agree with you, apparently), photographers (and it seems being a photographer makes you "better" than an armchair enthusiast, which must mean photographers are all therefore contributing to the hobby whereas those just watching aren't) appear to credit the public with an ability to tell them (experts) apart from other members of the general public, i.e. seeing a photographer in a place of potential danger is not seen as encouraging lesser mortals to also tresspass when they have the nerve to watch a steam train laid on for the private benefit of the assembled photo gallery.
    - (And this will be a shock to many) - wearing a HVV does not put an force field around you - you can still get run over if you are in the wrong place (after, of course, being in some-one else's photo or the possibilty giving some poor train driver the fright of his working life).

    Sorry for some sarcasm - I have no real involvement with watching or operating on the mainline so should probably not even comment, and I know many who take photos also do much work for railway preservation but the attitude that steam is there just to be photographed by a privilaged few and should be none of the public's business is the "red-rag" to a bull to me - without the hard-earned cash of many who would not call themselves enthusiats (as well as many that do), steam would be a few cold, lifeless monuments in museums and not a living experience on the mainline or heritage lines - so who are any of us to say that "Joe Public" has no right to watch and enjoy because they may be doing it in our shot! (And I do take photographs but accept other do, and others watch)
     
  17. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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  18. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Perhaps I didn't state my point very well. I have not, I do not, I never will, condone trespass. It's wrong and it's stupidity. I meant that each member of the public has an equal right when viewing these events. They are for EVERYBODY to enjoy.
    Sorry for any confusion.
     
  19. tfftfftff86

    tfftfftff86 Member

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    If I could change the subject just for a mo. Can anyone tell me how many feet, or yards, or metres long a Duchess and 12 on the hook are? Those OL gantries are perfect for timing the passing of a train, and for the owner of the original video, who can count to the nearest frame (1/24 sec on my DV camcorder), extremely accurate speed calculations are possible.

    For the record, 6233, with Annie, Clarabel and the 10 others, passed gantries on the flat at Holme and Winwick in 8 secs, managed 12 at the bottom of Shap, and 13 at the end of the first scene, when she was already well onto the steep bank.

    46115 was significantly faster on Shap with Great Britain 2 earlier this year (10.5 sec through Scout Green). Even though the Guardsman was only pulling 11, I'm sure he shaded it on pure speed.

    If you can answer my question at the top please reply, and then we can all get back to the trespassers v. law-abiding citizens bit.
     
  20. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    Just one small point - UK and European video cameras record 25 frames per second, same as the PAL broadcast standard, not 24, which is a US/Cinema frame-rate. HTH.
     

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