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'The Capital Christmas Express'. 23rd November

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by free2grice, Nov 16, 2013.

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  1. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    i wrote the original post trying to be helpful to a fellow member. If you think you can give a better explanation feel free. I do not intend to comment on furthur posts on this issue
     
  2. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    Oh go on. Sunday lunch approaches and no doubt the beer will start flowing soon: probably already has.

    Could do with watching a good old Nat Pres punch up while my lunch cooks.
     
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  3. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    Don't ever recall hearing a noise quite like that from any Bulleid.
     
  4. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    Depends on whether mechanical defect is suspected or something else not adhered to in maintenance/operating standards is the cause, if the latter it woulden't cause a fleet wide stop I'd have thought.
     
  5. decauville1126

    decauville1126 New Member

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    Flat Tops always seemed to have that echoing big-end knock, particularly on the overrun, even 50 years ago! As one of the (very) few at Wimbledon last evening for the down journey it certainly sounded 'right', knock and all.

    Let's hope they sort the loco soon - it made it back to Acton yard so did it then go on to Southall, or is it still at Acton? Possibly easier to load it onto a road trailer at Acton than Southall?
     
  6. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    It sounded more of a clicking to me, that is the noise that was new to me. I've heard many, many clanks in the past!

    Maybe just the way it came out on my laptop sound system.
     
  7. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    This has been posted in the Steam Trains in the UK group on Facebook




    This is how it happened and not speculation. I was there.
    The Capital Christmas Nightmare 23/11/13
    Report by Justin Foulger

    In the morning 34067 "Tangmere" with 47580 on the back for ECS moves worked 1Z92 07:25 Weymouth to London Waterloo. The run had no problems and was on time however some were saying that she didn't sound right in some places. There was a strange clanking sound towards the front of the engine. This was also heard on the return leg.

    On the return working 1Z94 17:48 London Waterloo to Weymouth, it passed Fleet on time at 18:44, 1 minute early. On the approach to Winchfield station for a water stop disaster struck. The right hand connecting rod became detached from the crosshead and fell onto the down fast line and hit the 3rd rail at the same time. The rod became ditched in the ballast. The 3rd rail was damaged on the down slow line.

    The down slow and fast lines were soon blocked and the 3rd rail isolated. Tangmere came to a stand as the locomotives drive became disabled by this missing rod. South West Trains stopping services from Farnborough to Basingstoke calling at Fleet, Winchfield and Hook were affected all evening. Network Rail inspected the train and the track condition and they soon reopened the down fast line. This was around 20:00. Network Rail were still inspecting Tangmere's condition and what they were going to do next.

    Around 21:00 a decision was made to lash up what's left on the damaged side and use 47580 to push the train to Basingstoke with Tangmere in light steam, where it will be terminated. The train will then return to Southall. Around 21:30 the disconnected rod was onboard the train. A further 2 minutes of work, one final line blockage was required and a final check to be made before it continues to Basingstoke. It would no longer take on water at Winchfield.

    At 22:20 the train was requesting permission to move from Winchfield to Basingstoke. Permission was soon granted and 47580 pushed the train to Basingstoke passing Winchfield station at 22:21, 197 minutes late. It arrived into Basingstoke platform 2 at 22:36 where the train terminated. A South West Trains service to Weymouth was held at Basingstoke for the railtour passengers to board so they could get home. It was 1W85 2135 London Waterloo to Weymouth which made a special stop at Basingstoke and departed at 22:37, 19 minutes late.

    The train was berthed in platform 2 from 22:36 to 23:21 while other services worked around it. A tail lamp was fitted to the front of Tangmere and the driver of the class 47 put his headlights on facing London. It left on time working 5Z94 2321 Basingstoke to Acton Lane Reception Sidings via Woking, Staines and Clapham Junction. Tangmere was in light steam and I believe it was able to run at normal line speed to Acton. It reached Acton Lane Reception Sidings at 01:14, 6 minutes late. It will go to Southall WCRC depot at a later stage.

    The down slow line was closed between Farnborough and Basingstoke all night as the 3rd rail was damaged and has to be isolated. The 3rd rail was fixed overnight and normal service was resumed on Sunday morning.

    With thanks to and sources from, UK steam info, Real Time Trains, members of the WRGEN Facebook page and Brett from SWT.
     
  8. green five

    green five Well-Known Member

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    When watching some videos of the outward run yesterday afternoon I mentioned to my Father that something didn't sound right with the motion on 34067. He agreed with me and he knows what Bulleids sounded like in their final days on the SR as he regularly used to sit on Woking and Basingstoke stations watching them hammer through. He said they used to knock but 34067 was clearly suffering a distinct thud in the motion movement.
    Glad that no one got hurt as a result of this incident and SWT helped with getting the passengers back home.
     
  9. 34098

    34098 New Member Account Suspended

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    I once seen and heard clan line clanking but not as badly as that and it had shut off the power for a speed restriction.
     
  10. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    So how do you inspect during an FTR a part of the motion, which may or may not have suffered a break in some part, that may or may not have been internal, and therefore not something you can check, etc etc. Anyway until we know, if ever, what actually happened, there seems little else that can be said at the moment.
     
  11. Baggie

    Baggie New Member

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    A picture at Winchfield in the morning.
     

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  12. mrKnowwun

    mrKnowwun Part of the furniture

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    Stood by the side as Tangmere passed many times in the last few years in many running situations, it does have a distinct clunk but last nights "clank" was different - different enough for me to think it was not normal at the time.
     
  13. green five

    green five Well-Known Member

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    Nice shot.
    Is it me or is there rather a lot of oil splashed over the rods and the wheels?
     
  14. martin butler

    martin butler Member

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    that knocking was most likily the knuckle pin that goes though the crosshead moving in and out, if for some reason the nut securing the small end starts to un screw its self there is nothing to stop the pin coming right out so either the split pin, or wedge ( cant remember if its held by a split pin or a taper wedge) had broken and fell out that would in turn allow the nut to loosen then unscrew its self leaving the connecting rod to work its self off the remains of the pin.
     
  15. buseng

    buseng Member

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    I said "I WONDER!". As usual you pick holes on anything I post on here. Is it a little hobby of yours? You might be a (senior?) mod on here but that does not entitle you to keep belittling other people.
    You don't know me from Adam, so what's your issue?
    Thanks for ruining my Sunday!
     
  16. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Immediately after the connecting rod became detached from the crosshead, the big end would have still been in its normal place on the crank. What I believe can happen in that situation is that the free end of the rod sticks into the ballast, the rod lifts the wheel as in a pole vault, and the loco derails. In this case we're told that the rod fouled both the live rail and the adjacent track, which means that it must have come off at the big end as well. It will be interesting to hear, in due course, how it managed to do so and what damage occurred to the big end and the crank.

    We're also told that the loco was eventually able to be moved in light steam. If that's correct, then with the connecting rod missing you would have to do something to stop the piston ramming the ends of the cylinder. One possibility would be to somehow lash the crosshead in place somewhere in the middle of its travel. On most locos another possibility would be to somehow fix the RH side valve gear in mid-gear, but that would be seriously tricky with an unrebuilt Bulleid. I would have thought it would be easier not to open the regulator at all.
     
  17. martin butler

    martin butler Member

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    MellishR, the only way the rod can come off is if the internal circlip that holds the big end in place comes off to do that there must be fore and aft movement on the rod in relation to the position of the crank pin
    to hold the valve gear at mid gear you insert wooden packaging at both end s of the crosshead and lash them in place, that prevents the piston from moving
     
  18. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Please excuse my ignorance, because I know very nearly nothing about the topic, but if it were possible would the right thing to do be to remove the final connection between the valve gear and the valve so that there was no movement in the valve chest for the affected cylinder? Maybe by taking down the connection between the rocker and the valve?
     
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  19. martin butler

    martin butler Member

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    For starters you would not open the regulator with any part of the motion disconected except for maybe the rearmost coupling rods. the engine would be in light steam only to lubricate the valves and pistons and provide vacuum . people get confused with what" in light steam" actually is, its in steam only to ensure lubrication, not to provide any motive power
     
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  20. Swan Age

    Swan Age New Member

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    Looking at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L2n5w_ykYo
    It appears that as Martin has said the crosshead has been lashed in mid gear with the wooden packing pieces and the connecting rod disconnected.

    Also another video shot earlier in the day shows a fairly violent slip at Poole. Nothing that unusual for a Bulleid perhaps, but something that I am sure will be looked into during the subsequent investigation to see whether there was any connection with the later incident.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9R3a4L_6WM
     
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