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Strathspey Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by steam_mad, Oct 30, 2015.

  1. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Well-Known Member

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    I feel really sorry for the railway and everybody involved directly with the incident, but it begs the question how on earth did it happen?
     
  2. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Having seen that video, the appearance is of a loss of situational awareness, as there’s no apparent attempt to stop or slow before buffering up.

    Why that happened is another question, which the film cannot hope to answer.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  3. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

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    Well it’s the Daily Mail so what do you expect ?
     
  4. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    A question the RAIB will look to answer, but previous similar incidents have been caused by the stock being positioned differently to usual, unfamiliarity with the loco or just a pure lapse in concentration.
    Either way the driver (& the railway) are more than likely mortified at this incident.
     
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  5. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Ah, the usual dead cat of “traditional print media lies on all sides”.

    It is up to the individual to assess the story: how it’s written, by whom, what evidence has been presented, how balanced it is, and then make their own minds up.

    In other words, reading the news requires you to critically think and ask questions.

    It is infuriating to see most people cop out and do no further reading, ask no further questions, and then parrot the same things over and over despite being patently wrong (see: cost of HS2 bandied about).

    Why single out the daily mail and criticise people for reading it? Because, believe it or not, I want people to be better. I want them to open their minds and to not just read the one paper and parrot that line of discussion. Read a variety of sources on one topic and you will always be able to make a more informed, balanced view than just reading from one source. (See also: the Edward Thompson thread…!)

    The Daily Mail was a regular item in my family growing up and I assure you that, more than anything, guaranteed my being on the left of the discussion given the rest of my upbringing.
     
  6. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    Having looked at the video a couple of times now, the Royal Scotsman set is a carriage or 2 longer than the usual Strathspey rake, with the end coach actually over the loop point. The loco is slowing, but not sufficiently - the driver has not taken into account the train being longer than usual and needing an earlier braking point. It is a maneuvour the driver has likely done numerous times before, but on this occasion he hasn't accounted for the stock being differently positioned.
    Someone on the fireman side looking out shouts something (perhaps 'brake'?), but it is too late. There is also a couple of other people on the footplate around the driver.
    Likely pure human error unfortunately, but plenty for the RAIB to look into.
     
  7. sycamore

    sycamore Member

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    I can see this raising lots of questions!!! Are railways feeling pressured into running longer trains than their infrastructure is designed for due to commercial constraints like hiring expensive 'stars'? Is 4 people on a footplate during a shunting manoeuvre too many - potential distraction? Trains longer than platforms are designed to take (although the back of the train is still the ultimate stopping point!!!).

    There's been a few similar incidents recently - and I'm not saying all these examples happened in this case, but I fear it may have a knock effect sadly...
     
  8. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Well-Known Member

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    They have been running 8 carriage sets behind 60103, and this was two weeks deep into the visit. I guess it was a lapse of concentration, but I find it so bizarre it would happen in such 'important' circumstances. Not only 60103 but the Royal Scotsman too. If it was the Ivatt on a normal running day, these things can happen, but with all the importance of the situation, really bizarre.
     
  9. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Two things.
    1. We are not allowing the video on here. Go and look if it interests you.
    2. General practice on the main line seems to be to stop short of the carriages and then ease up under control of someone trackside or on the platform.
     
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  10. Chris86

    Chris86 Well-Known Member

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    I was under the impression that this had been encouraged as good practice following an incident on a heritage railway some years ago. It was certainly something that was occurring at the railway I volunteered on at the time.

    Chris
     
  11. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    I would guess it would depend on what is in the railway's method statement for coupling up - I would imagine that would be the inspector's first port of call.
    @JBTEvans is quite correct though in pointing out they have been running longer sets for the last couple of weeks. So another question would be whether the standard risk assessment needed altering for this. There is a slight bend for example at the end of the platform - does this affect sighting for instance? Larger and unfamiliar locomotive, large corridor tender. If a fresh RA had been done, had this been communicated to staff?
    Lots of questions, hopefully the railway will be stronger for it by the end. Very unfortunate and embarrassing though that it involves two of the highest profile & expensive items of rolling stock you could imagine... I suspect if it had been the Ivatt and Mk 1s we wouldn't be discussing it!
     
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  12. echap

    echap New Member

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    I presume (maybe wrongly) that the Strathspey Railway will be responsible for the cost of moving and repairing the Royal Scotsman train and also Flying Scotsman locomotive. I also fear that Flying Scotsman could be removed from the mainline and heritage railways visits after this and be sat back in the NRM main hall thereafter.
     
  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    It is also rhe practice when units couple up on the national network.
     
  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think wait to see what the cause is deemed to be, and in particular which of many possible causes (crew, loco, infrastructure …) resulted in the issue.

    Tom
     
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  15. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    There should be insurance and a contract to sort liabilities. I very much doubt the loco will be recalled to the NRM & wrapped up, this is a risk of loaning out equipment which has been done numerous times - but I'm sure there will be learning points for all the parties involved. Let us not forget one of the Strathspey's own locos was damaged whilst out on loan last year, these things happen!
     
  16. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    There is a requirement in the big railway rulebook to stop 2 metres short of any train and await instructions to move onto the stock. That is all very well with a diesel and electric loco but is an accident waiting to happen with a large superheated steam loco. You open the regulator and close it, hoping it will move but often it doesn’t so you give it a bit more steam and, before you know it, the loco is away and you go for the brake by which is too late. You can stop 20 metres or more away but that’s not always possible. It is far easier and arguably safer to not stop and creep onto the stock at 1-2 mph having slowed down well in advance.
    Those Gresley tenders are very difficult to see past, especially on a curve.
    I’m not going to comment on the incident itself.
     
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  17. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Many years ago somebody described trying to bring a Britannia into Paddington the same way you would with a King and having to apply extra steam as a result at which point it went very wrong, so yes stop and move foreward often isnt the way to go.
     
  18. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    The video that is available clearly shows that, for whatever reason, there was little if any slowing during the movement. I make no observation on why that happened - the video only shows the movement from trackside, and does not give any obvious indication of what was happening on the footplate, or why.
     
  19. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant Well-Known Member

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    There is now video floating around that I won't post that shows Scotsman hitting the Royal Scotsms
    Royal Scotsman is 10 carriages. 8 Mk1s and a couple of Mk3s.
     
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  20. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

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    On the big railway failure to stop short before buffering up counts as a collision. Understandably this is much easier to achieve with a diesel or electric loco, the possibility of stopping on dead centres is a disincentive to a steam driver to stop and restart.
    Pat

    I see that @Steve got there first! One factor that needs looking at is whether there is a member of groundstaff seeing the movement back - another big railway requirement.
    P
     

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