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Steam Ban due to fire risk (updates)

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by neildimmer, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Well-Known Member

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    Fine article about the probably the worst national daily of the lot :D


    Jon
     
  2. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Part of the furniture

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    Are any of them?...................................... they publish what they think will sell their paper and to hell with the truth, that or embellish it as to how they want to portray things!...............................................................
     
  3. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

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    Exactly my point but Neil seems to be inferring it's only what he calls the "Tory papers" that you can't believe.
     
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  4. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Part of the furniture

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    Do you class the Sunday Sport a "Tory Rag" with its sensationalist/OTT reporting? I know I don't, I was there at its launch back in the late 80's at the Pembroke Hotel, Blackpool, topping up a student grant..... plenty of scantily clad wimmim :) dishing out the first edition - London Bus found on Mars (days of the Route Master!)................................................... yet in most of their stories is the element of truth..............

    Any way this has now gone off on such a tangent its about time we got back to the topic itself........................................................................ the politics of the newspapers are worthy of a thread to themselves, though if it would be sensible is debatable...................................... you can not win an argument/debate about politics or religion down the pub nor on here so probably best to stick to topic and resume talking about the sensible measures some lines have adopted with regard to their near neighbours.........................................
     
  5. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    I woulden't trust any forecast in advance of 3 days, they may get lucky, but any forecast in advance of that time period gets highly unreliable to such an extent your just wasting your time looking at it as there are so many variables.

    It's not like we can control it anyway, I get pissed off at a lack of steam too, but no point going on about it or the potential of it when the weather won't take a blind bit of notice of our concerns.
     
  6. neildimmer

    neildimmer Member

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    it always seems the Express always comes up with this twaddle
    anyway last I am going to mention it

    back on topic
     
  7. johnnew

    johnnew New Member

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    Talking to an SWT employee in the pub last night. There was a small track fire at Dorchester yesterday even without any steam traction in the area.
     
  8. mroper

    mroper New Member

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    Question, why did today's Fellsman run without a diesel yet the Waverley last Sunday ran with a diesel behind 46115 ? Have I missed something or have we had 6 inch of rain in the last 4 days !!
     
  9. Paul42

    Paul42 Well-Known Member

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    The Waverley starts in York and all charters in that area must have a Diesel. Note : - York area ends at Skipton. Info received from Les RTC train manager on 1T57.
     
  10. mroper

    mroper New Member

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    Thanks, that explains. Looks like we will have to put up with a diesel somewhere in the formation on the Waverley and SSE for the rest of the season. I've been on the Waverley already and booked on the Spa bank holiday Monday. (seems odd the York area ending at Skipton !)
     
  11. 5098

    5098 Well-Known Member

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    Hearing very welcome rumours that the York area steam ban ended today. Probably explains why 45699 was allowed to run light engine back to Carnforth.
     
  12. buseng

    buseng Member

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    Just looked on UKSteam. There were 6 steam tours scheduled for this week end. 4 have been cancelled including an interesting one Kidderminster to Minehead.
    No disrespect, but the 2 left running are repeat tours. The Shakespeare Express & The Waverley.
    The ironic thing is that torrential downpours & thunderstorms are forecast for the southern half of the UK tomorrow.
     
  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    The cancellations have nothing to do with fire risk though. All down to various unavailabilities and a bit of speculation that the WSR couldn't accommodate, I recall.
     
  14. maureen

    maureen New Member

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    The Kidderminster to Minehead train was cancelled months ago, long before there was talk of the fire risk steam ban.
     
  15. buseng

    buseng Member

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    Cancelled again on the 7th of September as well, in fact there are quite a few cancelled tours on UKS for whatever reason.
     
  16. maureen

    maureen New Member

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    they had a series of them planned and advertised all at the same time and were all cancelled months ago when it was found that they wouldn't work in with WSR's own services
     
  17. neildimmer

    neildimmer Member

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    Steam ban back again I see by York, any rain due this week?
     
  18. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    BBC forecast shows a few showers for York this week, but no sustained rainfall.
     
  19. spicer21

    spicer21 Guest

    Nothing significant forecast for Darlington or Durham either. Seems a likely candidate for postponement I'd say.
     
  20. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    It is now September and we are not out of the wood yet with this issue. The complexity of it all was revealed in stark reality yesterday when it was reported that the light engine movement of 44932 apparently caused a lineside fire that has prompted the use of a diesel minder on the Royal Duchy today. When we do return to normal service, is there a possibility that all interested parties could meet with Network Rail at some point to agree a sensible strategy for next season? But can I first spell out my thoughts?

    For what it's worth there seems to have been two main things going on this year:
    1. The incidence of a lineside fire triggers a steam ban (or light steam requirement) from Network Rail in that area.
    2. Hot, dry weather prompts Network Rail to proactively impose a steam ban without there having first been a specific issue in that particular area.

    Let's remind ourselves how it all started in the summer season. Everything was fine (and that was also the important point weatherwise!) when Tangmere set a fire on Upton Scudamore bank. Network Rail reacted and things flowed from there. Would they have imposed a ban if the incident hadn't occurred? Probably not, but something was likely to happen at some stage to trigger a ban somewhere.

    Next we have the locomotive issue. I think that if we do the maths it'll show that more issues to do with lineside fires generally may emanate from the region of the firegrate and ashpan than from the chimney. As a result the risk is there whatever the load or the degree to which the locomotive may be extended. (Witness the 44932 incident and, of course, the infamous ECML issue with Sir Lamiel). It's a personal view and not a criticism of anyone but some types of locomotive do seem more prone to this problem than others. We shouldn't actually be surprised that in a heritage fleet with varying levels of sophistication in design especially with the added features on some, that these variations will occur. To illustrate the point, exactly how many lineside fires have, say, post WW2 locomotives such as the Britannias, Clan Line etc and in particular Tornado triggered?

    I expect that Network Rail sees a steam locomotive as a steam locomotive and probably isn't interested in how they may differ in design, water and coal capacity etc. But there are differences and in respect of potential issues with the setting of fires, we have the data to show it.

    Perhaps a way forward therefore, to possibly demonstrate to Network Rail that the preservation industry is taking the matter seriously whilst trying to keep steam running, is to think more carefully about which locomotives to use when the dry/hot weather is clearly a factor?

    It's not for me to go any further on this one but I do despair when one incident immediately affects everything else. There is no doubt that had 46115 not set light to the track at Haxby, then the 'Streaks' would have been allowed to run. Would Bittern have then set Yorkshire and Durham alight? Of course, I don't know. But the risk might have been less...and possibly even less with some other locomotives.

    Network Rail can only play with the cards that we deal for them. But this is not a poker game. I am convinced that there are steps that can be taken proactively by the preservation industry to help the situation. Trying to run less steam trips in the summer is one step but there are market implications in doing so - not that is, if, up front, the use of steam/diesel in tandem is made clear for particular dates. Then there could be the decision to keep certain locomotives 'on shed' in the most risky weather conditions and only use the more sophisticated locomotives solo.

    Whatever is done, the aim should be for no fires to be created by steam. How much better it would be for everyone and Network Rail if that were to happen. I won't accept that this problem is insoluble but I do think that the preservation industry should become more proactive. Then, when a single instance occurs, Network Rail might take a different view because they would have more confidence that it was just that.
     
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