Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by JBTEvans, Oct 30, 2020.
While I agree it’s a big increase you have to remember that it was launched with the bargain fares as a loss leader in the first place so not a surprise the prices have gone up.
I’m not sure how much of a loss they were incurring though or if it justifies the increase that has happened, or if they are just trying to increase profit margins.
The Pilkington set was used by the short lived 'Days Out' tours into the early 1990s so appeared regularly behind steam. Not sure I've digitised many of the shots though !
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Blimey, it looks like a matching rake of graffiti. <BJ>
I doubt we were that polite at the time, I had literally only just photographed 60532 going south with a full maroon set - and you couldn't get a more extreme contrast.
Does the exterior paint job cause the passengers any problems, probably not so it's only the linesiders/photographers that complain.
I'm not so sure Ralph. What would Belmond Pullman passengers think if they were presented with a rake of coaches painted in a ghastly livery. First impressions are very important. <BJ>
First impressions?...Absolutely right. Saphos is smart and it makes a difference. West Coast was tatty once before they discovered the screwdriver and paint pot. Belmond is in a different league from both and has its own expectations of its train and what is on the front.
The Savoy is in a different league to Travelodge. It’s wrong to try and compare a luxury mobile dining experience (Belmond) at fares way out of reach of most people to TOCs largely catering for the enthusiast market.
Definitely correct. I remember seeing it leave Stockport and thinking how lightly loaded it was considering the rarity of the destination. Got a video of it somewhere
Well said that man. I have sampled saphos first hand in standard class. Sat in an air conditioned carriage behind steam is not for me.
As far as the Pilkington sponsored set goes I am happy to be educated. I never saw the rake behind steam except this one occasion.
But isn't it a variegated market, not just two levels? There is the full VSOE experience. Then there is the Northern Belle and Saphos league. Then there is the WCR fleet, clean, well-presented, basic but (big plus point) Mk 1 and aiming to be diesel free. Then there is Riviera which the last time I went on it was a bit tired, but who cares if Clan Line is on the front? Thing is, some sub-markets do, others don't.
Are the TOCs 'largely catering for the enthusiast market'? I think that varies, but I doubt very much if Saphos sees its main revenue stream from there. Surely it is aiming at the special day out market, competing with a weekend away at a decent hotel, a high level sporting event or whatever.
Hopefully there is space for the range from the enthusiasts over to the up market brigade. What would be a bit sad would be if the enthusiasts were priced out of riding behind their favourite loco. Or worse if we were priced out of the entire market.
Enjoy it while you can folks.
I think it's fair to say Saphos don't want standard class passengers. Just look at the prices. The income from a 64 seat TSO at £155 each is nearly £10k. A first class coach is 42 seats at £195, just over £8k. Either someone has got their maths wrong, or the lower end is being deliberately priced out.
Even the dining price now is Northern Belle territory, and isn't far off Belmond Pullman prices.
Don’t forget in first class to guarantee a table for two there is an additional fee of £40 per person which offsets some of the difference.
Something tells me what was the Pilkington set is now basically all in West Coast red livery. Someone may be able to confirm? At least it was short lived!
I disgree that these days the enthusiast market is big enough for a TOC to be largely catering for it. Sure there are enthusiast geared tours, the RTC trip last Sunday being one I suspect, but things like endless repeats London to York, DCE, and many of the SD trips are aimed more at the casual traveler market and those wanting a different day out. Even the CME whilst having a higish enthusiast content in Standard has mainly non enthusiasts in up to six coaches of dining and First Class.
I think the Peaks express only had 2 coaches of standard class (tell me if i am wrong please), the buffet car (half a coach) , 1 open coach and a brake open, 1st and standard had sold out
I think there were plenty of enthusiasts travelling in first on the Bahamas trains I was on. The Belmond fares are a lot more and cater for an entirely different market.
Certainly true for at least seven of them, Ian, if you compare the 997xx numbers in these two links: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137496-traintours-pilkington-green-mk1-set/ and http://www.railtourinfo.co.uk/coach.html
Interesting to note from the first of these links that somebody is actually making models of the Pilkington coaches, despite admitting they are "hideous"!
You are right Neil, the buffet and the TSO had just a few odd seats spare and the brake had I think all but one compartment occupied, oh and by the way those of us slumming it were very upset that you did not come and say hello.
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