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S&D Railway Trust and Washford Eviction Notice

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Andy Norman, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    You may well be right, but.....

    Let us suppose that (a) the S&DRT will oppose the eviction and (b) the eviction is held in abeyance. Then eventually a decision is made and sadly that does not go in their favour.

    By the time that matter gets to court it could be (say) 6 months through the Notice Period. Once the decision is made, do they then have 6 months left before leaving, or will the original deadline date still stand?

    So....what do they do in the meantime? They can't just pack up virtually overnight, so do they start the process sooner rather than later just in case? If they don't, what is the likelihood that the Plc will say, in effect "it's your own fault that you wasted time by trying to contest it, we're not giving you an extension, so **** off now and we'll keep whatever you leave behind"?
     
  2. garth manor

    garth manor Member

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    Given the eviction is only 2 years into the new lease it would be expccted that the PLC will cover the costs of removal and reinstatement elsewhere, this will have been factored into the planning under any professional advice.
     
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  3. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Jonathan Jones Pratt has some Lorrys, maybe he will volunteer them to move the stock for free?
     
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  4. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Took one part of his job title of Signalman-cum-Porter very seriously.
     
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  5. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    His duster probably came in handy :)
     
  6. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    I think getting this done in 6 months would be exceptional, especially with the current situation when no solicitors are working at the moment or general court hearings taking place.

    I suspect that this could easily rumble on for a year or two (or more? Just look at the 4110 situation) before we even start thinking about going to the courts (unless someone decides to back down.)

    I'm pretty sure that if it went as far as court and the decision went against the S&DRT then it would be up to the judge to set a timetable for their departure. As I understand it that timetable would be based on what time the judge considered a 'reasonable' time span for them to remove their equipment - especially if he/she thought the S&DRT's argument was reasonable but failed on a technicality (e.g. having a 50 year lease when the Plc were only entitled to grant a 25 year one thereby making the new lease void). If it did happen before the end date and the area was to be returned to the Plc at the date on the notice I would guess that the S&DRT could request that the judge to specify a period where they would be allowed free and unfettered access in order to remove their equipment - especially as a rail connection may be required to remove some of the larger pieces.

    To be honest I can't see it getting as far as the courts though. The S&DRT seem to have gained some considerable support since this started while the WSR management appear to be struggling to justify their position and, if all I read is correct, losing some of their support. With legal fees accruing and court costs looming and having to run the railway I can see the Plc getting into dire straits financially, even if their case is watertight, which is currently uncertain. I can see it coming to a point where the various support organisations have to step in to save the railway from bankruptcy - either financially or by way of an EGM

    Unfortunately, by then, an awful lot of money would have been spent (wasted?) by both parties to no avail which is why I personally am disappointed to see the various support groups not openly stating their position. Perhaps things are going on behind closed doors which may all be well and good but I feel that if they do oppose the managements actions a public display of the amount of opposition to their actions may make the management think again.

    Alternatively there is the option for any supporters to stand for the Board at the coming AGM. I understand there are plenty of spaces on the Board and if five or more people who oppose this action could be elected (and the current Directors cannot refuse to accept them if they are elected at an AGM) Then the current four would be outvoted and an early end could be put to this whole sorry saga. (It might also be worth noting that the Board votes to chose who will be Chairman...;))
     
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  7. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Most people normally only get a cup of tea.

    Obviously there were stiff rods but nothing drooping down below 45 degrees at that box.

    Bell Code 6 beats 9 beats
     
  8. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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  9. 2995valliant

    2995valliant New Member

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  10. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    Throughout history, commanders have always been plagued with advisers suggesting they rush into battle at the first opportunity. History also tells us that this is rarely a successful strategy.
     
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  11. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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  12. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    Extraordinary, Monkey. I received a copy yesterday and started reading today, I'd just marked up a paragraph that I thought might come in useful here shortly ! I can certainly see where you are coming from. Great minds, and all that. :rolleyes::D
    Mike.

    PS to Robin Moira. You probably know this book but, if not, it is almost essential reading, particularly if you are interested in Military History !
     
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  13. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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  14. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    An interesting book. I'd disagree with some extent to Arnhem being considered a failure albeit " a bridge too far." (The film is of course a Hollywood blockbuster and not truly representative of everything that happened). Lt Gen "Boy" Browning was dismissive of German armoured divisions present in the area. (Which is mentioned in the film.)

    Well, I'd written more stuff on this subject which seems to have disappeared completely, as my internet connection on my laptop keeps failing. Time for a new computer I guess! I suppose none of it was relevant to the topic anyway!

    Regarding leadership though, perhaps these 2 statements have some merit:

    “Treat people as if they were what they ought to be and help them become what they are capable of.” (Johann von Goethe)

    “As for the best leaders, people do not notice their existence.
    The next best, people honour and praise,
    the next the people fear,
    but when the best leader's work is done the people say, we did it ourselves.” (Lao Tzu c500 BC)
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
  15. RobHickerton

    RobHickerton New Member

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  16. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    I know little of Jones-Pratt. I read about him in (I think) late 2016 in a magazine. He owned a Hall, owned a pannier tank, owned a gronk, owned a bus company, was a signalman on the WSR. He'd just bought Thornbury Castle, and was pledging to return her to steam.
    Now I am of the opinion that there can never be enough Castles in operation, and I wished him well in this endeavour. I couldn't see how the profits from running the local bus at Weston-Super-Mare were going to fund the running and maintenance of 3 locomotives. Thornbury Castle was in a sad state, with a lot missing, and my uninformed guess is £1.2m would need to be spent to get it in shape. However, his commitment seemed clear as he'd moved all the bits to his bus garage at WSM.

    I also recall that the grandest house in Camp Road, Gerrards Cross was owned by a butcher, so the busses could be much more profitable than I can imagine.

    It did strike me that this guy was quite a self publicist- seemed to be casting himself as the new "rockstar" of the steam world, and seemed convinced he had some sort of midas-touch with preservation. There was a certain amount of negativity on this forum, I recall, but I believe in letting people deliver on their promises if they can.

    Then last autumn, I heard the rumour that 7027 is up for sale again. So, 3 year attention span then. I don't have an issue with people who want to try something without committing too far. I don't have an issue with people who try, and fail. But when someone claims to have the vision and drive to do something extraordinary"LOOK AT ME, EVERYBODY. I'M BL**DY FANTASTIC", or claims it is their consuming ambition to do something, I expect to see them really try.

    What has this to do with the S&D?
    My experience of self publicists, self proclaimed messiahs, is they need people to believe in them, and swallow their bullshit It is these acolytes who are the ones who have to deliver the miracles that their idol has promised. The naysayers get run out. The doubters get run out by the "true faithful"
    In the end you wind up with a little martinet, surrounded by insecure yes-men. The deep insecurity of the idol, hidden behind the facade, drives them to make victim, one by one, these supporters, until there's no-one left to believe in them. The fallen idol then goes off to a) start afresh, b)start the whole process over again, or c) gets sectioned.
    Or gets a peerage and sent to the House of Lords.
    I really hope that wise heads prevail at the WSR before catstrophe.
     
  17. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    There is a certain amount in the public domain about what happened at Crossville which doesnt make encouraging reading in terms of how well the company was run
     
  18. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Nat Pres stalwart

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    Mike

    Thank you for the recommendation.

    Unsurprisingly, perhaps, I already have a copy. My first degree, at Imperial in London, was in fact joint honours ‘Chemistry with Management Science’ and I then went into railway management with some minor success until the oafs in charge decided that in 1990 a trans individual was not suited to a public management position and I reinvented myself as a lawyer.

    I was also privileged to study a different form of management at Sandhurst on the short TA course where books in that vein were more directly relevant.

    Robin
     
  19. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Maybe the S&DRT will see themselves more in the mould of Leonidas and his Spartans at Themopylae ? :)
     
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  20. jma1009

    jma1009 Member

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    Is that the best you can do, Mike, after 16 hours, and after presumably having 8 or 9 hours to compose your response?

    Touche!

    I am sorry, but after 6 weeks for the SDRT over Washford and the 'Notice to Quit' how much more time does the WSRA need to get off the fence, whilst Solicitors have been instructed on behalf of the SDRT and everything is gearing up by the SDRT for a court case that might get into the Law Reports...

    Correspondence from the SDRT Chairman to the WSR PLC Chairman has gone unanswered.

    Let me state publicly, the SDRT has no desire whatsoever to engage with the WSR PLC board in court proceedings, but Part 2 Landlord and Tenant Act 1954 requires this, due to an old Act of Parliament (that ought to have been reformed many years ago), and the procedures laid down in the Act, as it is the only way to challenge the s.25 'Notice to Quit', and s.30 (g) grounds stated, as otherwise the SDRT will have to leave Washford.

    Negotiations are only possible if both sides are willing to negotiate; the SDRT is willing. The WSR PLC board is not.

    Then there is SDRT loco '88' which was 'thrashed' last year by the WSR PLC, and is still in bits.

    I agree with Andy Norman that there is only so much time we can expect the WSRA to take a stance on all this and JJP. As the clock is ticking against the SDRT as the 'Notice to Quit' runs out.

    Robin is clever, and no doubt far cleverer than me, and wittier than me, but surely she can see that the clock is ticking as against the SDRT and Washford, and that time is of the essence for action and shows of support.

    And it would be expected of WSRA members also to have some statement from the WSRA board as to how Paul Whitehouse was treated by the WSR PLC Chairman.

    It was quite something to see Frank Courtney get a bit rattled on here today, as indeed he should.

    Cheers,

    Julian
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020

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