If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

S&D Railway Trust and Washford Eviction Notice

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Andy Norman, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. Hampshire Unit

    Hampshire Unit Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,285
    Likes Received:
    1,702
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Carer, Gardener
    Location:
    Alresford
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Just joined the Trust Andy, a birthday present to myself!
     
  2. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    3,911
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nr Bridgwater, Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Thanks, welcome aboard and of course Happy Birthday.
     
  3. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,673
    Likes Received:
    3,382
    That is indeed the thinking of the Trust's Board. A lot of worry, hassle and expense in the short term, but a better situation in future.
     
    Shaggy and jnc like this.
  4. unitdriver

    unitdriver New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    28
    What Whittaker equipment was fitted to loco's working over the S&D?

    Also, as a fair few ex S&D loco's made it to preservation via Barry, do any retain anything of it?
     
  5. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    4,914
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    For some general info you might like to read here:- www.trainweb.org/railwest/railco/sdjr/sigmisc.html#whitaker :) For more specific detail then I would suggest that you read the Monograph by the late Dr Peter Cattermole (see Reference 3 in the above).

    I've got no information about the 2nd question, sorry.
     
    unitdriver likes this.
  6. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 14, 2015
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    3,911
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nr Bridgwater, Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    53808 still has the bracket to mount the tablet catcher in and in the S&DRT collection we have the catcher itself and a repo tablet pouch so it could be made to work, below is an old photo I found on RMWeb of it in action at Washford many years ago and a photo of 88 leaving Minehead more recently and if you look closely behind the tender hand rail you will see the round mounting bracket.

    upload_2021-6-11_17-40-32.png

    upload_2021-6-11_17-40-46.jpeg
     
    unitdriver, green five, jnc and 4 others like this.
  7. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,673
    Likes Received:
    3,382
    If a tablet/token/whatever is exchanged automatically on the move, how quickly can the driver get hold of it to check that it's the right one for the section they're entering?
     
    Jamessquared likes this.
  8. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,849
    Likes Received:
    2,687
    Reasonably quickly, plus the section signal being clear gives you a fair idea that the token is at least out for the section and was in the possession of the signalman at the box you just went past the chance of mixing tokens is actually lower using this apparatus as the actual exchange doesn't involve extra people and a stationary train. Read the report on Abermule.

    Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
     
  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    20,927
    Likes Received:
    38,601
    Location:
    215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Isn't one of the lessons of Abermule, though, that the crew were handed the wrong tablet, which they failed to check? It wasn't that they proceeded without a tablet, but that they had the wrong one. So I can see where @MellishR is coming from: use of an automatic tablet catcher might make the exchange more reliable (especially at speed) but it doesn't excuse the crew from the necessity of checking that they have the correct tablet before passing the section signal. From memory of reading Peter Smith's books, getting the apparatus into the cab so that the tablet could be inspected was a somewhat physical task.

    Tom
     
  10. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    3,031
    Likes Received:
    3,302
    It is hard to see how you could be given the wrong tablet from a box that only has two instruments. When passing non-stop you are giving up the tablet for the section you have just passed through so the bobby is only able to release a tablet for the section ahead. That said you still have to check that you have the right one. The problem at Abermule occured because the offending train was given the token the they had just surrendered back again, but this is hardly going to occur doing a non stop exchange.

    Peter
     
    MellishR and Jamessquared like this.
  11. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,849
    Likes Received:
    2,687
    Exactly

    Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
     
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    20,927
    Likes Received:
    38,601
    Location:
    215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Ah yes, good point. Should have thought about it a bit harder.

    Tom
     
  13. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    4,914
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    A fair comment. However....
    I believe it was not unknown for a signalman to withdraw a tablet, but forget to put it in the pouch :)

    There would have been places (eg Edington Jcn, Glastonbury) where there were 3 instruments , so some scope to be given the wrong tablet. Likewise at Corfe Mullen Jcn in pre-1933 days there would have been two (for Wimborne Jcn or Broadstone) and the driver might have been given the wrong one.

    Also, do not overlook the fact that - as far as my research shows (and I don't claim it to be infallible!) - on the Branch at least 'tablet out' releases were not universal until the mid 1950s, although admittedly all exchanges were done by hand there.
     
  14. John Palmer

    John Palmer Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    483
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Locomotives on extended allocation to the S&D were fitted with one of two main types of tablet exchanger. One of these designs involved the exchanger remaining aligned in the 'exchange' attitude and was attached to a bar working in a slide housing bolted to the front bulkhead of the tender. With the other design, the receiver jaws were aligned downwards and held close to the tender sidesheet until required for an exchange, for which purpose the exchanger body was rotated through 90 degrees so that the jaws adopted a horizontal attitude. Simultaneously the arm on which the exchanger was mounted was swung outwards through an arc of 90 degrees so as to position it at the required distance outboard of the locomotive to make the exchange. With both of these designs, only the pouch containing the tablet had to be taken from or fitted into the exchanger, which remained attached to tender.

    However, for locomotives 'borrowed' for use over the S&D, a design for a temporary exchanger was developed which involved the complete apparatus with outgoing pouch and tablet being fitted into a slotted housing for the purpose of each exchange. This could be a difficult task for the fireman who was required, with one hand, to align the exchanger with its mounting slot whilst the train was in motion, although this was still treated as preferable to a big pouch exchange. Careful examination of photographs sometimes reveals the presence of the slotted housing for such exchangers, notably on 'Bagnalls' shedded at Radstock and employed in banking duties that required taking on the bank engine staff at Binegar.

    The S&D 7Fs were fitted with exchangers on both sides of the tender, the offside exchanger being aligned for exchanges with the locomotive running tender first, this being common practice in the class' early years in service before turntables of adequate capacity to accommodate them became available at the usual endpoints of their workings.
     
    RailWest likes this.
  15. granmaree

    granmaree Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    458
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    A lousy bit of a shot cropped from a bigger picture, 2011, pick-up PSX_20210612_173915.jpg demonstrated at Washford
     
    unitdriver and Wenlock like this.
  16. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    14,518
    Likes Received:
    8,821
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Are there any plans to have the apparatus on display somewhere, to be able to demonstrate how it worked?
    Of course a fully working set up, would most likily not be viable, unless you have locos equipped to use it, and somewhere safe, from joe public , to be able to use it safely, However, I would imagine sited at the end of one of the platforms at Ropley, by the signal box, would certainly make it interesting, as the 7F runs through non stop using the apparatus, to exchange tablets,
     
  17. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    4,914
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    Two points on that....
    1. Are not the MHR now using key-tokens, in which case you would need to adapt the pouches and their holders?
    2. I suspect that these days the ORR / H&S may have something to say about an engine running past a platform with a set of pointed jaws sticking out the side :) At least at Washford the demo was in the yard behind a fence, where it could be seen from the platform without endangering anyone.
     
    jnc, torgormaig and Aberdare like this.
  18. toplink

    toplink New Member Friend

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    60
    Occupation:
    Signalman
    Location:
    South Dorset & sometimes Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I have always wondered how the apparatus was set up and how it takes into account the loading on the tender springs assuming that the tender rises as the coal and water are consumed.
     
  19. richards

    richards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,423
    Likes Received:
    1,522
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Makes you wonder how reliable/successful it was in service. It's verging in Heath Robinson in its complexity. It's just missing some long lengths of knotted string.
     
    jnc likes this.
  20. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    4,914
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    Actually, there were certainly lengths of string (not sure if there were any knots) at Midford, so that the signalman could put the tablet in the deliverer in readiness, but then go back to his box and wait until the train was approaching before pulling the arm into position :)

    Given the equipment lasted until closure in 1966, I suspect reliability was relatively high. Likewise, I doubt that the GWR would have adopted it in the 1930s if there was any uncertainty about it.
     
    jnc likes this.

Share This Page