Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 61994, Jul 21, 2020.
Well, that puts the 47 tail-gunner debate into perspective...
In approximately two years time when 2007 turns up all this will largely academic.
Must admit today saw the 47 pushing but it is what it is so at the end of the day I rather see steam on the mainline being helped at this time of year rather than not at all . Some purists will obviously disagree but hey ho .
That right is subject to some "ifs and buts".
Yup. Certainly were in Coach H. The numbers thing could be handled by a fare rise. Extra £20 is justified. Well worth it for the 'product' we usually get.
The forecast was for a band of light rain to pass through the region around 5pm; the returning CME was scheduled through Blackburn at 17.32. With a diesel on the back and the prospect of rain, did I want to bother? Of course I did, it could be considered rude not to attend.
Around 15.00 it got very gloomy as the clouds gathered and there was not even the hint of a breeze to move them on their way. Just as I left home (16.15) patchy light rain began to fall. As I drove towards Wilpshire the windscreen needed only the occasional flick from the wipers to clear the slowly accumulating drops. Grasping my brolly I headed down to the station.
I was deliberately early. In a long gap between service trains, a log train was due up the bank followed by the CME; if the log train was early then the CME could be early. I hadn't long to wait before the log train appeared (5E), it growled up the bank, lights shining on the wet sleepers, wiper swishing across the screen. The class 70 passed me and the train was still coming round the bend. Excitement over I retreated to the shelter and out of the now steady, but still light, rain.
As I waited a rat scuttled behind the shelter and trotted down the platform, onto the track before crossing over and disappearing into the trackside vegetation - what excitement! The CME was on its way having left Horrocksford Jn 4E. I wandered back onto the platform and took shelter under my brolly and before too long BIL appeared in the distance. Her exhaust was white and lifting well, the sanders were on and there was a healthy feather at the safety valves. There was the characteristic whooshing from the chimney and a continuous hiss from the sanders, As BIL passed under some overhanging trees the exhaust caused the branches to shoot upwards; the leaves were still green and were not dislodged. I spotted Chris Holmes on the footplate and he returned my wave - thanks. Running 6E progress was steady (18/9 mph) which suggests that the 47 wasn't in "push very hard mode" and as it passed the sound was nowhere near the levels in SGT's video - but what went on lower down the bank, "stays down the bank".
The rain persisted for another 2-3 hours. Ice cream was available at Wistle Towers - but I did not partake. Well worth the trip out. I appreciate that some people abhor a diesel on the back, and I do understand; I do much prefer them not to be there but sometimes in this world we don't get what we want. Thanks to all who provided my afternoon's entertainment.
For those who like diesels - enjoy. For those who don't - look away now.
Sorry Ralph but how many times have we seen the late departure of steam from Carnforth loop caused by late running services? Certainly more often than not I'm afraid.
Not quite sure what your point is, charter trains are at the bottom of the running order list so late running service trains will invariable be given priority.
This is a knock on effect, slotted behind a late running train with an on time service behind, its a no brainer. Either gets looped or delays faster train following.
It's not rocket science!
Out of interest David, with much shoveage we got from 24 onto the Arches to pass mp15 at 42.3; gaining 17 mph on 2 1/2 miles of 81 1/2r, as a Bullied would!! Then BIL was allowed to do more of the work and we only passed mp13 1/4 on Ramsgreave and Wilpshire Station at 18.4. Sorry I can't bring myself to watch.
Other non-Pacifics were available...
I doubt that even BIL’s more illustrious classmate could manage an acceleration like that. It is reassuring (for both of us) that your GPS speed and my timing of the train from my video both produced 18.4 mph - akin to “great minds think alike” or is it “fools seldom differ”? For an avid timer like yourself it may be better to avoid the October CME in future years. For me, at the present time, all steam is good steam.
This would be my preferred option, but if not, I will have to vote with my feet and not book for next leaf fall season, the other option would of course be for the TOC to follow the NR guidelines for the Autumn period, but that will not happen without the above.
of lesser power so likely to need assistance . which then brings us back to the crux , the popularity of the tour took the weight above what was considered without risk for the loco . The extra coaches and revenue generated presumably outweighted the cost of the diesel on the back . For most passengers Grayrigg, Shap, Ais Gill and Wilpshire will mean little . Getting to Carlisle on time for a wonder round the city and home again on time will be the most important things
In the past 10 years since 86259 has been involved with CME's / Winter CME's originating from London Euston, diesel banking has been pretty (very?) rare. Excluding the tours with fire risk, I only see the following:
60103 WCME Feb 2016 - diesel on rear due to Scotsman's first mainline run
45699 17th October 2015 - Load 12.
60009 19th July 2014 - Load 11
70013 31st March 2012 - Load 12. There was a faulty coach removed, and I believe the diesel was included as part of this issue.
60103 and 70013 runs have their individual reasons. 60009 I'm not sure on that one. It only leaves one other 45699 in October 2015.
There have been 68 CME's and WCME's in that period.
Looking at the same period and format in October months:
10/10/2020 - 45699 load 12
12/10/2019 - 6201 load 11
13/10/2018 - 45699 load 11
14/10/2017 - 45690 load 12
17/10/2015 - 45699 load 12 (diesel at rear)
04/10/2014 - 45699 load 11
23/10/2013 - 45699 load 10
16/10/2013 - 46115 load 10
Only 1 out of 8 have had a diesel on the rear.
Statistically I think you could be reasonably optimistic booking that there "probably" won't be a diesel involved, but still there is a chance there will. 17/10/2015 being the indicator.
While those names mean little to most, most of the passengers are aware of the S&C and the scenery (and the reason for being on the trip) thanks to Michael Portillo and Bob Green , the laters photos for the WCME and CME have been in the RTC brochure for years. I remember meeting a couple one February who joined at Watford Junction and were disappointed there was no snow as the photograph in the brochure. They still enjoyed the secenery and the trip.
I think 60009 may well have been fire risk but I'm not certain. Equally that year I believe there was a strike by the firefighters union which caused problems as well. Load 11 on 60103's WCME in 2016.
The CME doesn’t usually do that. In fact quite the reverse. TPE in particular.
Yes, you're right Sam, I don't think there was any fire risk that Summer, but there were the firefighter strikes. As noted on UK Steam:
Thing is David we did all but one of the trains Ian listed above so really had no reason to think this year would be any different. Not been much leaf fall anywhere yet either; so not sure what the 'adverse rail' thing was about. All I saw out of the milepost side window on the WCML was very shiny rail as expected after more than 20 trains had gone up the WCML before us. From the speeds the top and tailed train ran at there were no psrs or tsrs. Bit baffled and seriously disappointed. Carlisle to Ais Gill is a different matter but we've done over a hundred southbound runs over the S&C at all times of the year in all weathers and never slipped to any extent even with pacifics.
I expected some assistance as it was a 450 ton train without the additional 115/120 tons of the Class 47; but nothing like to that extent. Looking back I'd have honestly preferred WCR to have left 35018 on shed and run with just 47245. It was the epitome of Show Pony Steam, something I really hate.
Separate names with a comma.