Rother Valley Railway

As seen here at Roberstbridge in July 1968
Ray.

 

I remember "Pride of Sussex" at the mill. When ever we visited Robertsbridge it either had been used last week or was expected to be used again in a few weeks time, so I never saw it used. I do remember on Sunday seeing the 'H' undergo a steam test, but at that time British Rail would not allow it it move under its own power, and it left soon after. The Burrows tank was in the yard for many years while the Ford Railcar and other rolling stock were present until the end, being moved up the line just before it was lifted in 1972.

 

Does someone know where 'Pride of Sussex' and the H Class are now? Both would be great re-acquisitions for the re-born K&ESR. A push-pull operation along the line would look really good I think.

 

The H at least is now on the Bluebell in full South & Chatham Railway livery, has been for many, many years. Not quite so sure about the P Pride of Sussex, but is also on the Bluebell too I think.....

 

The P (31556) is currently in many pieces around the yard at Rolvenden

 

Do you know if there any plans to resurrect her, however long term?

 

The H class moved from Robertsbridge in I think 1968 to the South Eastern Steam Centre at Ashford, where for a time it ran together with the Stirling O1 No. 65 and Wainwright C class No. 592. It left there in 1975 and went to the Bluebell Railway where it has been ever since. (Nos. 592 and - eventually - 65 also went to the Bluebell). Ownership of No. 263 transferred from the H Class Trust to the Bluebell Railway Trust in 2008. The loco was last in traffic in early 2022, and is now undergoing another overhaul.

No. 753 (one of four SECR P Class locos to survive) is based on the KESR. It’s an interesting variant from the other three preserved in that it was one of two built with a higher cab for some reason.

Either loco, if running, would be an appropriate choice for when the extension reopens. I don’t believe the H Class has ever run anywhere else since arriving at the Bluebell in 1975. It did go to the model railway show at Warley one year in connection with Hornby launching a model.

Tom

 

The P at the KESR is privately owned by a group who have been making steady progress over a number of years.

The KESR Board has (1) been keen to see projects around the Railway finished and (2) is well aware of the close connection our ‘P’ has with Robertsbridge (Hodson’s Mill).

No promises but I for one would be very disappointed if it were not in traffic for opening to Robertsbridge.

An entirely personal prediction (for which I claim no greater knowledge that any other supporter of the KESR/RVR) is that that might be at Easter 2026.

When I joined the KESR Board, I said I would commit to 2 3-year terms, which I hoped would see the extension open. If God (and the KESR members) are willing I would like to extend that to a third term to see that achieved. I think there should then be a bit of a watershed when we ‘oldies’ might be best advised to step aside to let a new generation (which thankfully is well represented at the KESR) take the Railway forward into the body of the 21st Century.

 

My understanding is that the basic idea of traffic lights came from railway signals. Anyone know why, despite that, one colour is referred to as "yellow" on the railway but "amber" on the road?

 

Because they are not the same colour! (They don't convey the same meaning either, but never mind.)

 

Because railway signals were lit with oil lamps. Distant signals had a yellow glass in them. This has continued in the same way many other railway terms have historic origins such as a signal being "on" or "off".
Ian

 

And green semaphore signals have a blue lens in them, because they appear green when a yellow oil lamp shines through them. So that can't be it, or the green would be called blue.

Amber is a different shade, it's mid-way between yellow and orange. If there is a question at all, it is why did traffic lights adopt amber rather than yellow. And that I don't know.

 

But in Victorian times, distant signals showed red or green, as did home signals. The changeover only came in the first quarter of the twentieth century - indeed, red distant arms could still be seen in the early grouping period. Loco men were expected to know the meaning of a signal just by its position (i.e. whether a red light was a home, which meant stop, or a distant - which meant caution); in some cases where that could be ambiguous, some pre-grouping companies fitted "Coligny Welch reflectors" which took some of the white light from the lamp and reflected it through a prism to show a distinctive chevron next to distant signals.

This is the signal bridge at Bricklayers Arms on the approach to London Bridge. Pictured in 1928, but with the distant signals still red rather than yellow (and distinguished by Coligny-Welch reflectors). That's well within the era of the motor car.



Tom

 

And I was most annoyed when I bought a 4-colour LED torch and found that the yellow was actually amber...

 

Could it be that traffic lights used electrically-powered filament lamps which had a different spectral output than an oil lamp flame? Particularly when filament lamps are run at a slightly lower voltage to extend their life, the light is slightly more orange - known as "orange shift". Factor in the various colours, could it be that the amber colour light was the most efficient use of electrical power i.e. the highest brightness obtainable with lamp and filter?

 

And as a complete aside, if you go back far enough the LNWR used purple instead of red for some stop signals... (I don't know about other companies, but I have this described in an ancient book written by an LNWR employee.)

 

As Tom said, distant signals were originally red (there is one in the concourse at York) and when another colour was adopted that was yellow so distant signals were yellow. When colour lights started to replace semaphores it was logical to retain this colour reference as everyone understood what a yellow signal meant, even though the reality was that it was more of an amber colour. On the roads there were never any semaphore signals so it was logical to refer to the colour displayed as what it was, which was amber. Many years ago there was a road safety campaign regarding traffic lights with the phrase 'Don't be an amber gambler.' I'm not sure whether this was related to the use of the word amber but it wouldn't have worked saying 'don't be a yellow gambler!'

Incidentally, and totally off topic, one other steam era term which is still very much in the rule book and on the lineside but effectively non existent is 'whistle' even though, as far as I know, horns are in universal use. Steam specials excepted.

 

They still have whistles on the London Underground

 

The P class 31556, which to Me will always be 'Pride of Sussex' was, I believe the first loco hired by the KESR from the Southern to keep services running when nothing else was available, It is, along with it's industrial service at Hodgsons therefore a most appropriate loco for the current RVR/KESR.

 

To every rule... The world's very first traffic signals, December 1868, in Parliament Square. Gas lit, after only a month or so, they exploded, badly burning the Constable entrusted with their operation: