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propelling

Discussion in 'Railway Operations M.I.C' started by rough-shunter, Jan 10, 2008.

  1. Edward

    Edward New Member

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    Not a propelling move at all.

    From what I understand, Tornado is essentially an air braked loco. Her driver would have full control of the brake, even if the traction power & brake pipe pressure would be being provided from the rear.

    Stop over complicating it!

    The rear driver would know where he was, and would regulate power accordingly. No radios required. As a previous poster has said, diesel locos have a Brake Pipe Govenor, which will take off traction power when the ABP falls below a given figure. ie if the driver on 60163 made an application, traction power from the back would cease.

    Just a slight observation - people driving trains, and managing operational situations, on the national network do know what they are doing. Please stop second guessing!!
     
  2. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk New Member Account Suspended

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    Exactly! The rule book is much thicker that side of the fence.
     
  3. spindizzy

    spindizzy New Member

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    I'm sorry I asked the question I did know the answer to.
    I thought that this was a place for us to find out why things are done like they are. I'm not in a position of employment in the railway sector so have limited knowledge of the rule book and as such listen to people who know better that I.
     
  4. Edward

    Edward New Member

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    Nothing wrongwith asking the question my friend, it's people that tie themselves in knots trying to answer them!
     
  5. howardw-s

    howardw-s New Member

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    It might help if we knew if we were reading an idea of what might happen from someone who doesn't actually know or an opinion based on operating experience and knowledge of whatever rule book applies to the poster!
     
  6. Small Prairie

    Small Prairie New Member

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    Then you should stop second guessing as well Raplh !!!!
     
  7. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk New Member Account Suspended

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    And you should learn to spell! 1-0! #-o
     
  8. Small Prairie

    Small Prairie New Member

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    Ah , very nice cheap shot mate , you must feel so big .
     
  9. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk New Member Account Suspended

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    Ah , very nice cheap shot mate , you must feel so big .[/quote:13tl60m7]

    Huge.
     
  10. cromptonlover

    cromptonlover New Member

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    As Edward says

    With the 67 on the back and Tornado unable to create brake, the 67 would supply main res through the train to provide it at Tornado so that its driver can open his brake up, charge the brake pipe and have control of the train brake including the brakes on the 67

    The driver of the 67 would have to have his cab open so as to be able to provide power. He would have to isolate the brake control unit (E70) otherwise the 67, with its cab open, would be charging the train pipe as Tornado's driver was trying to reduce it to brake

    This constitutes assistance in the rear and the formation would travel far enough to clear the running line
     
  11. Ann Clark

    Ann Clark New Member

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    [
    Ah , very nice cheap shot mate , you must feel so big .[/quote:rmd82e19]

    Huge.[/quote]

    Play nice please
     
  12. Small Prairie

    Small Prairie New Member

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    What ever keeps you happy , Just remeber your only a 15 year old kid who things he can sort a website out which is currently failing very badly , both letters and latest news pages are wrong and shed + others look dam right tatty .

    Spend more time on the website and less time on here being stupid . Just an idea.
     
  13. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk New Member Account Suspended

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    What ever keeps you happy , Just remeber your only a 15 year old kid who things he can sort a website out which is currently failing very badly , both letters and latest news pages are wrong and shed + others look dam right tatty .

    Spend more time on the website and less time on here being stupid . Just an idea.[/quote:kqiruhkp]

    Please tell me where they are wrong, I shall be happy to change them, as I have said on here before but had no response from you.
     
  14. cromptonlover

    cromptonlover New Member

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    How about toys are put back in prams and we keep to the subject?
     
  15. kesbobby

    kesbobby New Member

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    If a train is signalled for the wrong route at a junction and does not stop before the controlling signal, it can be propelled back past that signal once the train crew and the signalman have reached a clear understanding about what is to be done. This method of working is in the Big Railway handbook and is not peculiar to preserved lines.
     
  16. Calan

    Calan New Member

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    So... You're propelling a train WITHOUT a Guard? Hope you read your version of 'Working of Trains' in your Rule Book.

    In any case think of the Passengers. There is a raging inferno on the track. Blocking the line.


    Two options:
    Option 1: Leave the passengers on the train where they will be safe and come to no harm
    Option 2: Evacuate the train, causing possible (serious) injury in the evacuation.

    Option 1 is the SAFEST option.
    You propel back to the previous station. At a safe speed. On arrival passengers can stay on the train OR get off. You have the Guard controlling the movement via handsignals. In an emergency the Guard can always pull the Communication Cord to stop if absolutely necessary. You are making sure the passengers are safe and that they aren't going to come to any harm.

    Do you know how long it takes to evacuate a full train with about 300 people? I do...

    Option 2:
    You are putting everyone in danger, including yourself! Put people on the track and they will trip, hurt theirselves and you haven't done it for any reason.


    If the train was a raging inferno I'd evacuate...

    The rules (if I remember rightly) for Propelling are:

    - Within station Limits
    - Where authorised in the local instructions
    - When making a movement of an Officers' Special
    - When Making a movement of a Brakedown train
    - When making a movement of points worked by a ground frame
    - When setting back after taking a wrong turn at a junction
    - When setting back after over running a station
    - When making a movement of an Engineers' train except where propelling of such a train is prohibited in the local instructions
    - When setting back after a division of a train.

    (Feel free to correct me... I can't remember. I think they're right.)
     
  17. martin butler

    martin butler Member

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    its been quite a long time since i looked at a rule book, but if you are stopped in section, shouldnt you carry out your train protection and send the fireman with the token down to the nearest signal box or phone to warn the signalman otherwise you could find yourself propelling back straight into another loco coming to asist ? if its possible and you can safely put the fire out you should ,as long as you dont put yourself or train in danger, this i guess would be your first dutie before setting out the dets , but i cant see anyone deciding to propell a train without informing the signalman first
     
  18. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    If you've still got the token/staff then no other loco can be coming to assist!!! Of course a double track railway is a whole different story. Certainly putting out the fire takes priority over protection.
     
  19. jtx

    jtx Member

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    IIRC, there was a train, known to the cognoscenti in the trainspotting fraternity and the workers themselves, of course, as the Radway Green Workers' train. This was not advertised in the normal timetable, but ran a few minutes before, or after,(I can't remember) the advertised 4.20pm Crewe - Derby local. The train's popularity amongst the trainspotting community was that it was steam - hauled, right into the mid - Sixties, 1965, or 1966, no doubt someone will know exactly. By then, every other passenger train in North Staffordshire, bar specials and one or two of the Londons, had long been DMU. Its purpose was to collect the workers from the Radway Green Ordnance factory and convey them home. Radway Green used to have its own platform in the works, but, by the time I first used it, they were picked up at the main line station. Technically, we were not supposed to be on it, buts few of us got on at Crewe and the guard never bothered us. It used to sit in the bay, 3B, I think, next to the service train in 4B. It was usually a Black Five, occasionally a Stanier or Fairburn 2-6-4T and half a dozen LMS coaches. The reason I mention it in this thread, is that, when it arrived at Kidsgrove Central, having dropped off, it pulled forward on to the Manchester-Stoke main line, then reversed to Liverpool Road Junction, before proceeding along the North Staffordshire Loop Line, stopping at all stations to Etruria and Stoke. I think its final destination was Uttoxeter. In later years, (1963 onwards?) this ceased, presumably because the Loop Line closed to passengers. The train continued to run, as mentioned above, but just ran the conventional route, along the main line to Stoke, through the noxious bore of Harecastle tunnel.

    I assume this was by Local Instruction and may have been permitted because it was classified as a Workers' Train.
     
  20. Calan

    Calan New Member

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    Martin,

    The Signalman won't allow an assisting train to go into section WITHOUT a token.

    The Guard will layout protection of the train and the Fireman will be going to the Signalman with the token. Of course, it's different on a diesel Loco where no secondman is present.

    However. I'm sure if your line is blocked by fire there isn't any reason why you cannot set-back/propel to get the train out of danger.
     

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