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Pennine Explorer 22/05/21 60163 Tornado

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Groks212, May 12, 2021.

  1. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I've heard unvalidated so far, 55mph at the summit too. In context 46229's Blue Riband record was 54mph. Perhaps Tornado could have done to stop at Appleby to make it a "valid" Blue Riband challenge!
     
  2. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if you are aware but BIL never actually took water at Appleby! They went to put the bag in, but found the loco had stopped slightly short and it wouldn't reach the tank. Rather than closing all the doors and pulling forward, the crew decided they had enough to reach Hellifield and that was that. The Appleby stop was purely for ice cream it would seem! I wonder if conserving water consumption was a reason for the slightly less energetic climb that ensued? However, 35018's water capacity should be more than sufficient to cover comfortably.
     
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  3. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres

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    Both trains comprised 13 coaches so comparison of the train running would surely be of interest.
     
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  4. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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  5. ribble

    ribble Member

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    Tornado approaching Kirkby Stephen in a lucky patch of light

    David Price
    Cop Lane on Flickr ..jpg
     
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  6. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Chalk and cheese. Carlisle to Settle Jct running time 117 mins BIL v 89 Tornado . OK, deduct 5 mins for the Appleby stop, that's still a 20-25% difference. Appleby to Blea Moor 48 mins v 33 mins. Says it all really.

    Really excellent run from Tornado, let's hope someone was on board to fill in the details. If it was 55 at Ais Gill summit, how does that compare with the Duke and Duchess?

    Mediocre from BIL, those sparkling runs from two or three years ago seem to have gone. Was it just managing the water situation? The run from Carlisle to Appleby wasn't wonderful either. Only the crews and the engineers will know.
     
  7. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    46229 was 54mph at the summit on her record run.
    In comparison, Tornado was 37mph at the summit 16/09/2017 also with 13 on and no Appleby stop.
     
  8. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

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    I anybody has a full log of the run south over the S&D the please could you send me a PM. Thanks
     
  9. 46203

    46203 Member

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    And a bit more - in addition to the time it was stationary at Appleby, there will be the time for reducing speed over some distance for the stop, then the restart with the time it took to attain line speed with 13 on.
     
  10. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    117 mins was the running time excluding the stopped time at Appleby. Five mins was what I was allowing for slowing down and the restart which is level or slightly downhill to the start of the climb at Ormside.
     
  11. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    If only a run over the S&D was still possible. <BJ>
     
  12. blink bonny

    blink bonny Member

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    Going away. Tornado-(22)-fbook.jpg
     
  13. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture

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    A shattering crescendo of Peppercorn Prowess !
     
  14. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Member Friend

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    Timed 60163 between Angerholme overbridge and the road bridge using @green five's video (thanks) - gives average speed of 54.8mph.
     
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  15. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I hope someone can provide a log and a calculation of power output. My rough calculation shows that a sustained 55 mph with that train up 1 in 100 would require well over 2000 edhp. That's a plausible figure for a class 8 Pacific but would mean a lot of shovelling.
     
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  16. Britfoamer

    Britfoamer Well-Known Member

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    Birkett, could hear it all the way from Kirkby with the NW wind, wonderful experience. We had a phone message from someone on the train whilst stood in the gallery, that it had stopped at Appleby? P1120847.JPG
     
  17. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Member Friend

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    Plugging some numbers into the RPS spreadsheet, Tornado, 13 coaches, 1/100r, sustained 55mph produces . . . 2650 edhp. Always, of course, subject to a margin of error. Very impressive but a figure that Tornado has reached before. As you say plenty of coal went into the firebox - well done the crew!
     
  18. walkerp1

    walkerp1 New Member

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  19. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Sadly I was not on either of Saturday's trips with BIL or Tornado so without the data and more importantly a conversation with the crews I am not going to speculate too much about either run. However they both gave an opportunity to compare two Class 8s hauling 13 each on the same route, albeit with probably the better conditions on the rail when Tornado went up. That said, the superb videos gave much to think about and what a treat for everyone, both on the train and in their armchairs, to savour two high class locos doing what they do and making a pretty good job of it.

    My 'take' on both runs from Carlisle is that, of course, the run with Tornado was better although no different from what it is capable of doing as it has done similar in the past. There is talk of a summit speed of 54/55. In 2010, after a water stop at Appleby, rather than pass it at speed, we were over Ais Gill in 23 minutes from the start at 50/51 and that included a tsr to 33 at Griseburn that the trip on Saturday didn't have. So an unsurprising outcome, in my view, if the crew were prepared to work Tornado hard and there is little doubt that they were 'going for it'. Well done to the fireman.

    As for BIL, whilst the Bulleid was bring worked and it was chattering away, my senses tell me that it was not being pushed, for whatever reason, and there were tell tale signs of this with the carry of the exhaust and the engine note. But, for goodness sake, why on earth should every trip be at the limits of capability and adhesion to prove a point, or not, even?

    I for one am grateful to both crews from West Coast for bringing a bit of normality back to the main line steam charter world. And to be honest, if you cannot achieve it on the S&C with its challenging terrain plus generous pathing slots around the normal traffic then there is little hope elsewhere!
     
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  20. leander

    leander Member

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    I am not a professional timer, the speed at Appleby was 62 and Ais Gill 52.8
    Carlisle Dep 17-09 Ais Gill 18-07
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2021

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