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Pacers: The End

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by DismalChips, May 24, 2018.

  1. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If you thought they were bad you should have sampled the pre-war clerestory trams operated in Dresden during the 1970s. I was in the area and went to Weinbohla but missed the last train back hence having to take the tram - an hour's ride screeching and swaying through the rural outskirts of Dresden; a memorable journey indeed.
     
  2. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    I once had a pacer on a Newcastle-carlisle run bring on an epileptic seizure so I shan't be sad to see them go!
     
  3. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Bad news for Catholic Commuters - you wont be getting your daily 'Time Off Purgatory'
     
  4. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    The 4 wheel Liverpool trams were also a hair raising ride, I used them for my journey to school when the weather was to bad to cycle.
     
  5. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I know how I can cure you (no charge), ride one, with bus seats, on the Carlisle - Leeds service...........or The Bentham Line jointed track.:(

    Yes, put one in the NRM, somewhere in a dark corner, take up a bit of room that they haven't got. Pacers are appalling heaps of misery.
     
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  6. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    I can see a fair few entering preservation though
     
  7. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Whether you like them or not their 30+ years of service have seen many lines retained that would otherwise have been closed hence they are an important part of the railway history - especially in Northern climes. For many lines it was a simple case of "Owt or Nowt" methinks so be grateful that they were produced; this month's Railway Magazine has a couple of letters from senior engineers involved in their development that gives a little background to their introduction.
     
  8. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    This is often said but has it ever been verified? (I havent seen the Railway magazine letters) - was the political climate such that closures would have been tolerated? Were they just a cost-slicing exercise where in reality the order for Class 150 (Or similar) could have been increased to cover the shortfall?
     
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  9. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    John Welsby and David Kirby were under massive pressure to come up with something and they did. Possibly at stake was more Stockport--Stalybridges with bustitution.

    I wonder how the whole life costs of 142s compares with 150s.
     
  10. GW 5972

    GW 5972 New Member

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    How about this one? Recently when I went to Barry to see 60009 being serviced I saw a pacer named
    SIR TOM JONES - he must be chuffed!!
    The people who live near the curve to Barry Island will think they have gone deaf when they finish as the screeching
    can be heard for miles.
    Having said that, while I was there pacers in various combinations of 14x and 14y were happily trundling past with
    monotonous regularity as they have done for many years.
     
  11. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    I've only ever travelled on them once, from Exeter to Barnstaple ( should have gone by bus ). They are a creation of the devil and should be consigned to history and forgotten about.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
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  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    At the time the Pacers were trialled, the alternative was the class 210 DEMU. The cost difference was such that it would have been very difficult to sustain the case for replacing 1st generation DMUs, which would have led to serious questions about the viability of lines relying on 1st generation DMUs.

    This was a period when closures were still underway - Tunbridge Wells - Eridge closed, the S&C closure was proposed, and BR seriously pushed closing Gainsborough - Doncaster and Gainsborough - Barnetby. It's hard to know what might have happened had the Pacers not been there, but the existence of such cheap units helped avoid the very difficult questions that would have come up. They do therefore deserve significant credit.
     
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  13. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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  14. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Class 210 was a hugely over-engineered unit, 150 must have been around the same time?
     
  15. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    If I recall correctly, the Pacer orders were first placed when the alternative was Class 210, and the cost reductions achieved by going from a DEMU based on the Mk3 bodyshell (cl. 210) to a DMMU based on the same bodyshell (cl. 150), which also used space more efficiently.

    The interesting counter factual is to consider what might have happened if the cl. 150 design had evolved far enough to be a serious competitor to the Pacer, and not the cl. 210.
     
  16. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    These units clatter over the level crossing in the centre of Paignton. On the occasions I have seen them I have never been tempted to take a ride on one. They remind me of a bus on metal wheels, which in one respect I suppose they are.
     
  17. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    Must have been some transferring south from Newcastle last Saturday night.

    Was in the garage, with door open, and could hear them get a good whipping, with the worst wheel flats I have heard for ages.
     
  18. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Hate travelling on the bloody things, but undoubtedly part of railway history and should be treated thus.
     
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  19. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

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    My feelings precisely.

    I do think they may have a future on heritage railways, not least because of the excellent views. The idea of converting one into a sort of mobile function room is appealing.
     
  20. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not sure they’d have the same appeal as a saloon...


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