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North Norfolk Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by NNR Engineer, Apr 15, 2011.

  1. sleepermonster

    sleepermonster Member

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    One has been pointed in that direction but it is nice to have the option. It isn't exactly a priority, we have two as it is, but one day......I think we are trespassing on NNR preserves. Perhaps there ought to be a new thread, "Plans and patterns held in stock". If anyone should be wanting an Austerity chimney for example.

    Tim
     
  2. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

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    Interesting article on the line in this month's Railway Magazine.

    Mentioned plans for a second headshunt at the east end of Sheringham have been abandoned, so visitors in the new TIC have a better view of locomotive movements. Also that the Y14 is now assigned to slightly less arduous trains, with the availability of stronger and slightly younger locomotives.
     
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  3. Jointline

    Jointline New Member

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    Regarding the headshunt, would the larger tree along the footpath have to moved for this to have the necessary clearance, and at the same time keeping the popular trackside footpath. It is nice to sit in the cafe opposite and watch the locomotives paused outside the signal box whilst the points are changed. Hopefully it will not be long before the 2-10-0 WD is back in service, and with two 2-10-0 locomotives in service on the North Norfolk that will really be something. Apparently big locos are as cheap to run as smaller ones on the well filled holiday season trains on the NNR.
     
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  4. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think we'll be seeing a bit more of this in the future, I mentioned in an earlier post on another thread that for a few years now the SVR has set load limits on it's smaller loco's such as 1501. As I say I think we'll be seeing a bit more of this as both a way of conservation and also with an eye on costs of future overhauls.
     
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  5. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

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    Just noticed a picture on the M&GN website of a WD 2-10-0 at March depot in WD green (khaki?) paint scheme. Possible paint scheme option for the NNR WD in the future? Now the line has another big black 2-10-0...
     
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  6. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Could I have a source for this please, for use in future arguments against a certain forum member... :D
     
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  7. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    It would appear that North Norfolk must be one of those rare areas where basic laws of physics don't apply! The Mid Hants was another, stating years ago that Bullied pacifics were much more economical than the N & U class moguls.
     
  8. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    The comments I hear from those in the know suggest that wider firebox locos, especially if fired by anyone more used to narrow fireboxes (non-footplate person piece of advice - you don't need a 'Midland back-end' in a wide firebox!), can be very expensive unless the load/speed requirements mean that amount of steam production capacity is needed.

    I was told just on Monday of a line that after extensive measuring and trials concluded that the biggest factor in coal consumption was - who the fireman was! Their fleet of locos were not hugely different to each other but also not identical. The comment caused a financial colleague to splutter, as they had some time earlier been told that they were talking nonsense when they gently asked if who the fireman was affected coal consumption!

    Steven
     
  9. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    One of the most sensible posts on this subject I have ever read. I have seen supposedly economic locos leave shed and return having nearly run out of coal, equally "hungry" locos, with the right crew, have come back having used comparatively little...
     
  10. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    This raises heated debates within the NNR mess-rooms! Not being a huge steam man, I really cannot fathom the Y14 myself, as I've personally observed the loco haul the heavier NNR trains with no problems whatsoever, almost like it was born to do it. However there have also been days when the loco's performance has been appalling, diesel assistance being required on occasion. I've looked for a pattern to explain it (rail conditions etc) but have yet to find one. I think like most engines, some crews get more out of it than others, and the loco will always have odd days when it decides it doesn't want to play! These days seem more frequent however than the number experienced with the larger/newer Black Prince or Standard 4 etc. Having chewed all that over, the Y14 has been on the vintage train this week, a combination which looks great with the added bonus of the train being light!
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It's been a known fact that the fireman and driver can have the biggest influence on coal consumption, probably ever since Murray and Blenkinsop put Salamanca into service in 1812. On the NYMR, there are some firemen who will fill the box up at Grosmont and then shovel continuously all the way up the bank; then there are others who will spend quite a bit of time without the shovel in their hands. It's a simple fact of combustion that, if a loco is making smoke, it is wasted energy going up the chimney.
     
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  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    After reading the above, I have to say (I'll run for cover) are these people being taught properly? Or are these people teaching people doing somthing wrong?
     
  13. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

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    So are the WD and 9F economical locomotives for the NNR?
     
  14. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    According to post 403, yes!
     
  15. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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  16. natdawson

    natdawson New Member

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    In a way yes, they are obviously bigger than the J15/Y14 but you're not thrashing them on the heavier trains.
    Also they can go a lot longer between boiler washouts, so providing nothing breaks they will be used for longer without the firebox and boiler cooling down completely between each use.

    Usually with the WD you still had some pressure left the next morning which helped once you had the fire going with careful use of the blower.

    Economy is not just about coal and water, down time, ease of maintenance, amount of loco required to cover diagrams are all important factors.
    For example in an ideal world three large locos could cover most of the summer services (two locos required a day and one out for maintenance and washout) whereas using smaller locos with more frequent washouts etc four or five would be required.
    Obviously it is wise to have more than three locos to run things.
     
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  17. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

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    I guess another bonus is the 'crowd puller' effect that Black Prince has.
     
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  18. damianrhysmoore

    damianrhysmoore Well-Known Member

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    So...Not wanting to put any cats amongst any pigeons. Did the backdating of the J15 to Y14 ish spec have anything to do with its current less robust performance... or was that strictly cosmetic...After all the spec changes in smokebox, chimney etc from Y14 to J15 presumably were done to make it a better loco
     
  19. Jack Enright

    Jack Enright New Member

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    I think, in fairness, that the same is true of drivers. One in particular that I used to fire for was a constant headache; one minute he'd be apparently trying to blow the chimney off - a mile or so down the line, he'd notch right up, just crack the first valve, and be crawling along at about 15mph. Trying to match the fire and water to match his antics was verging on the impossible, at times, and plenty of both went to waste.

    Yet another driver, 'Cherry' Wyles, on the K & ESR, was a revelation. He was an ex-boat train driver off BR (S), and a master of his craft. He could not only keep to time, but also make up time lost by others, on less coal and water than any other driver on the shed - and he made it look so easy! When he started driving there, every fireman (including me!) found himself lifting the valves, because we were just making far more steam than Cherry needed to do the job.

    If anyone had the right to swank about his driving skills, it was him - but he never did, and he never talked down to anyone (though his blue language could buckle boiler plate at 100 yards!). On the contrary, he was full of encouragement, and dead keen to pass on all the tips and dodges he'd learnt over the years.

    Top link driver - and a real good mate to work for.
     
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  20. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

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    I was under the impression, from reading Joint Line, that the initial post-overhaul performance issues with the Y14 had been overcome with a period of running-in. As has been stated the locomotive is capable of pulling the 5 coaches and a van trains that the NNR require, they just dont want to thrash it about so much anymore, and with larger emgines available they dont need too.
     
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