Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by MuzTrem, Dec 27, 2019.
It looks as though the 'bits that matter' ie not the cab might fit
The Russian loco wouldn't represent much of an improvement on a Funkey anyway, at 400 versus 335 b.h.p. Even the SAR Class 91s only represent around 650 b.h.p. I think the FR would be looking for something more substantial than that.
They still have to transmit the power to 2ft gauge wheelsets, and that seems to be the pinch point.
How does the transmission work on the SAR Class 91?
Its fascinating though that it is far from straightforward to build a diesel that can do the same job as a NGG16
From the Class 91 wikipedia entry
Maybe how other 600mm gauge diesel electric locos can be built?
This photo from the internet gives some idea of the construction of a Class 91 bogie. The frame is arched between the wheelsets and the traction engines are slung underneath. A neat solution, but I rather think the loco frames would have to be relatively high above rail level which could be an issue when it comes to overall height of the loco. The engine of a future loco using these or similar bogies could be slung in a well between the bogies, which might overcome the problem
That explains the 'hose and air filter' between the axles
The earliest bogie loco on the Queensland sugar cane railways (first one was in 1972) were built by E M Baldwin (no relation to the American Baldwin), and used axle mounted final drives designed in house. They did experience quite a lot of problems with the final drives, certainly initially. http://www.sa-transport.co.za/trains/sugar_cane_rail/baldwin.html
Eimco (I assume the mining equipment company) built four 720hp 2ft gauge locos for the sugar company in 1990; I believe they are still in use so were presumably successful. Eimco is not a name that I usually associate with loco building, though reference is made to one being built in Zimbabwe. http://www.sa-transport.co.za/trains/sugar_cane_rail/eimco.html
Most of the big bogie locos are 500hp ex 3'6" gauge Queensland Railways DH class, originally built by Walkers and rebuilt by them down to 2ft gauge. These are the intriguing ones; did final drives designed for 3'6" gauge fit 2ft gauge wheelsets or were the final drives replaced? http://www.sa-transport.co.za/trains/sugar_cane_rail/gh500.html
Interesting. I hope that FfR/WHR look at these. Silly to reinvent the wheel unless there is no alternative.
Is it not possible to use outside frames, so that the whole of the width between the flanges is available for something? Then put a final drive gearbox there, including a spur gear, with a drive shaft coming down from above the wheels?
Surprised that these loco have not been up in the discussion before. Superb and rugged design, more than 11 500 locos built to the same basic design and still counting...
We bought the slightly older design TU4 some years ago, see loco 21 Gaivoron:
Also regauged, not only the width between the rails but also narrower cab to 82 inches and reduced height to 10 ft. This is doable for the TU7 as well.
Specially the bogies are very good, gives the loco a ride like a tourist coach with air suspension but is also capable to negotiate very, very bad track on Russian forest lines.
I don't think there is anything more suitable as a base for a rebuild/newbuild.
The Russian locos are designed for service in all part of the former Soviet Union, i.e. from deserts with +45 C to Siberian winters with -50 C, that's way more than 100 degree span. In Wales you normally have a max of 30 degree difference between summer and winter. Probably you would be able to increase the power of these locos considerably. All axle gear boxes are the same, giving a great flexibility of how to arrange the propeller shafts and might be possible to design a three bogie, six axle loco. Or, as have been done in Russia, multiple drive. Giving pair locos with 8 axles. Sky is the limit.
Don't compare them to the Funkeys, the axle gear boxes of those hardly fit between the axles and the rails...
I have to agree with Dag Bonnedal , the Russian Ty7 could be uprated in engine power using the same Bernaul V12 engine, the transmission & final drive boxes would be capable of taking this. The adhesive weight would need to increase accordingly but this could be designed alongside any body modifications for a restricted loading gauge, similar to the rebuild by Steve Coulson on the FR Funkey "Vale of Ffestiniog" We do have another Ty7 in store at the BMR, ex Tatra Electric Railway in Slovakia & 1000mm gauge, which would be a good basis for such a project.
Slightly off-topic re recent conversations - but certainly on-topic with this section: over the last few weeks, the Halesworth to Southwold Railway's 9oomm-gauge 1989 4W DH RFS loco RS106 turned its wheels, under power, for the first time after eighteen months' work, and a couple of decades in the rain which meant a great deal of re-wiring and solenoid/valve work. We will be posting a short video of this on the social media.
This means that the complex drive system - Cummins engine, twin-disc hydraulic drive, turbine brake, gearboxes, cardan shafts, axleboxes et al are all OK - quite a relief! We very much hoped that this was the case - as the hydraulic fluid is both very clean and non-leaky, and the system hand-turned easily - but it was nice to confirm it. Our small but highly-dedicated loco team are to be congratulated. Sadly we had to remove the seized parking brake to get this to happen - but that's the next thing to sort. The team hope to be driving this loco on our workshop test track in spring - the first coach, being built to test loco and train brakes, etc., is under construction as well.
In case anyone is wondering - yes, the gauge is 14mm too narrow for the HSR - but the extra-wide wheels combined with low-profile "industrial" flanges mean that the back-to-back measurement is fine, and there won't be problems integrating with 914mm (36") stock or pointwork.
I see there are plans to broaden the 2ft guage lines at Gwalior - some interesting NDM5 diesels in use there?
Although some of them may be a tad 'worn' . . . .
Those were built in the late 80-ies.
Newer twin cab NDM-5 No. 812-814 were built in 2014-15
Quite unusual with twin cab locos on this narrow gauge.
Well, its good that NG has survived in India to the point where lines are now being upgraded to Broad Gauge
For those interested in narrow gauge diesels, and possibly those that are not this appears to be a new video about the Talyllyn's Alf.
I have to admit I found it a reasonably interesting watch as it was covering something different.
I've got a great affection for No.9 (Alf) as I was given the task of getting it going after it arrived on the T.R. Good to know its still going strong 39 years after I started it for the first time. Can't understand why they can't change from 1st to 2nd, though. We used to do it all the time using the centre slot to double-de-clutch.
Another surprise acquisition by the Durango & Silverton:
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