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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I also saw that advertised in their email comms. As you say, an example of how to do it and, I suggest, an illustration of the spirit in which member society governance should be conducted.


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  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    It's fair to acknowledge that we have had a degree of upheaval in the last few years, particularly in the company, but I have never seen any suggestion other than the formal conduct of the company and society has been scrupulously fair.

    I'd also add, à propos earlier suggestions that the L&B might need a paid company secretary, that the company secretaries of both the plc (which operates the railway) and the BRPS (which is the majority shareholder and membership body) are volunteer positions. There have been significant governance changes recently, of which the most notable was a change of the BRPS from an unincorporated society to an incorporated company, all achieved without the cost overhead of a paid member of staff acting as company secretary. Clearly there were some costs of legal advice in that (set out in the various account booklets for the last few years), but without the long-term overhead of a salary. That's in an overall railway family which I believe, in membership and turnover terms, is rather bigger than the L&B family.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2023
  3. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    The key word here is “fair”. I’d never suggest that the Bluebell has been less than fair in my period of membership, but this demonstrates going above and beyond legal minima that exudes fairness rather than mere legal compliance.

    Which, reverting to matters L&B, were minima not achieved this year.


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  4. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    What is s-o-o frustrating in the L&BR case it that their M&AoA do allow for electronic proxy voting (Clauses 28 and 29), but the Trust failed to take advantage of that by the simple process of designating (a) an agreed format and (b) a specific destination e-mail address. All so simple to do surely, so why didn't they ?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2023
  5. Michael B

    Michael B Member

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    Doesn't need a tunnel - if an 'east route' via Westland was used it will still be level at the south end and 1 in 40 north of the Parish Boundary - as shown in the deposited plans for the 1883 scheme for a 3ft gauge L & B railway (which didn't get thro Parliament). On the extract from a modern map below, the L & B was built in blue, the 1883 scheme is in green. Avoids the reservoir, and the spiral or zig-zags that have been suggested. 1884 BMG modern.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2023 at 3:56 PM
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  6. Biermeister

    Biermeister New Member

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    Looks good Michael but it doesn't seem to enable a Wistlandpound Halt for the Calvert Estate.

    Could the old route perhaps continue on a new route along the curve past Calvert Estate heading approx ENE then cross the neck of the reservoir and then make a reverse sweep to rejoin the 1883 proposed alignment near the western end of West Ridge?
    (I've no idea what problems this might require solving in reality!)
     
  7. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    One might question whether either the Calvert Trust or the L&BR actually want/need a Wistlandpound Halt in the long-term anyway.

    My impression has always been - perhaps mistakenly - that its origin was simply that it was merely the location that was as far as the Phase 2A extension could go until the 'reservoir deviation' problem was solved, so there would be a 'temporary' terminus with a run-round loop and a platform so that passengers could alight and watch the proceedings etc very much in the same way as at KL currently. There was a suggestion that passengers could use it as a 'picnic spot' and take circular walks around the reservoir before catching a later train back to Blackmoor, but I'm not sure to what extent there was any 'customer demand' survey to support that idea. In the longer term, once the line is extended to BF and beyond, rather than maintaining a Halt there, given its relative proximity to BR might it not be better perhaps - assuming that the space is available - to construct a dedicated, segregated footpath alongside the railway from BR to the WD site?

    Looking at it another way, when the railway is rebuilt from WB to Lynton, if it were not for the fact that historically there was a Halt at Caffyns, why would the L&BR bother to (re)build one there in the future?
     
  8. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    For Caffyns, a very good question. But for Wistlandpound, as a leisure destination, it may have value akin to that of Cei Llydan on the Llanberis Lake - and dare I say it more than BF, which is a reasonable step from the village along a poor road, and where the village is hardly a tourist hotspot - when in the area 10 days ago, I noticed that the pub had closed down.
     
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  9. Michael B

    Michael B Member

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    Below is the 'section' of the 1883 Parliamentary plan covering the intended route from the reservoir to BMG. The dam at North Thorne is at 8 miles 7 furlongs, and Blackmoor Gate at the far right is at 10 miles 3 furlongs. (A furlong is an 1/8th of a mile) The figures for the banks and cuttings above and below rail level will not be readable, but from left to right are :

    Bank 20'
    Cuttings. 20' and 21' 6"
    Bank 16' 6"
    Cutting 45' 6"
    Banks 14', 22' 6" and 17' 6"
    Cutting unreadable on my 60s 'wet' copy
    Banks 14' 6" and 26'

    So, got away without a viaduct, and there would have been a culvert over the stream.
     

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  10. Biermeister

    Biermeister New Member

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    The L&BR is a tourist-driven railway. Wistlandpound Reservoir is a potential tourist destination as you have ably described. Therefore it makes sense to build a Platform there.
    No-one can know what customer demand might eventuate and surely a survey at this time might be somewhat premature. A footpath between Blackmoor and Wistlandpound would hardly benefit older and less able travellers, so a Platform seems a good idea, with a temporary run round loop if Wistlandpound emerges as a temporary terminus one day.

    I agree entirely with you concerning a Caffyns Halt: it seems pointless today. (Well, it might have two sets if it eventuates as another temporary terminus in the fullness of time.)
     
  11. lynbarn

    lynbarn Well-Known Member

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    Caffyns will no doubt become a halt at some time, it may even become a passing place, since there is no definitive proposal to get into Lynton, many years ago it was suggested that a new Lynton Terminus should be built near Lydiate Lane, that would be ok if you are fit and able to get about, but for most people it will miss the point of visiting Lynton.

    Realistically until a plan has been submitted and the details have been worked out, I can only see Caffyns becoming the end of the line for now.
     
  12. The Terminator

    The Terminator New Member

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    Quite so Wayne, which is why David Moore and I drew up plans for a deviation around the reservoir that took in a halt at Exmoor Zoo at Stowford. The zoo attracts up to 50,000 visitors in a year the bulk of which is during the high summer season. Most visitors come by car or coach. It takes on average 4 hours to see the entire zoo excluding any breaks at the cafe. The benefit of the additional attraction of the railway is obvious as is the reciprocal for the zoo. As I said in a previous post the owners were extremely enthusiastic with the notion of additional traffic being generated by the railway particularly if the connection with Barnstaple was restored, from trippers without access to a vehicle.
     
  13. DaveE

    DaveE New Member

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    I think if any deviation takes us close to the Zoo due to necessity then that's OK, but to perhaps go out of our way to get there, and to an attraction which may or may not survive in the future (I don't wish the Zoo any ill will, but we just don't know what's in the future) then I think that's not an option unless the Zoo were to extend the funds in order to reach it.
     
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  14. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    We actually covered this earlier in the thread when @lynbarn mentioned it. Personally I don’t think the numbers add up as 50k annual visitors isn’t a lot in the grand scheme of things. The zoo opens 363 days a year, of course there are seasonal variations but that makes for an average of 137 per day. Of those, how many will catch the train there? Even an optimistic 20% doesn’t really bring in huge numbers which make it hard to justify in my opinion. By all means if the railway had to pass close by as you say that might work but not so if you are going out of your way and at the cost of the railway.

    The other issue which I remember @Jamessquared mentioned when it was previously discussed that the cost for a family may be to high and especially with young children, there’s a possibility that combining both could make a day too long for a young family meaning it’s not actually that an attractive option for them. I think with my two I would probably visit the railway and the zoo separately, much as I do now.
     
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  15. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    The L and B may one day connect the towns of its name. It is unlikely though that it will perform a transport function. If it is built it is more likely to be a tourist attraction. The experience of most heritage railways is that the intermediate stations produce little originating traffic. I expect that when open to full length the railway will take people to Lynton in the morning and back m the afternoon , with a similar pattern the other way, but perhaps smaller numbers. 95% or more of the traffic will start at these two points.
     
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  16. The Terminator

    The Terminator New Member

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    Nobody suggested that "perhaps to go out of our way to get there" as you imply. A deviation is necessary and if it can include a halt at Stowford at no additional cost which may have the benefit of attracting additional traffic then why shouldn't we proceed? As for your unwarranted pessimistic appraisal of the future of Exmoor Zoo one might justifiably adopt a similar approach to the L&B, after all as you parrot, "..but we just don't know what's in the future." With that sort of dominant negative attitude in mind why bother to support the reinstatement of the railway?
     
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  17. DaveE

    DaveE New Member

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    If at no additional cost, that's fine, no problem.

    You can label me as you like, doesn't bother me, but as for parroting, I think and speak for myself thank you as most who know me well know, we don't know what's in the future, my words and mine alone, I'm not sure where I am supposed to be parroting it from?
    Its a fact, none of us know what the future holds.
     
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  18. Biermeister

    Biermeister New Member

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    Wasn't it once said that the future holds death and taxes?
     
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  19. DaveE

    DaveE New Member

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    Those are perhaps the exceptions... Especially taxes! :D
     
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  20. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Sadly only for the super rich
     
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