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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Red5

    Red5 New Member

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    Another new build MW, there was a time when people said there would not be one, and now we will be having all four.
    You can’t please everyone
     
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  2. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Part of the furniture

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    But how often does that actually happen - I can remember swapping a big end bolt from one out of service austerity to keep another in service ONCE and that's it - it sounds good in theory but in practice it may well be different.
     
  3. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Very rarely because it's not usually possible!!
    But it does happens even between locomotives on different lines, and sometimes between different locos with common parts.
     
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Quite frequently, in my experience - up to and including boiler swaps.

    Tom
     
  5. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    The Southern Railway built LEW in order to provide extra capacity and resilience. At the closure in 1935, there was a spare boiler that could have been used in any of the four Manning Wardles, had the need arisen.
     
  6. tony51

    tony51 Member

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    Was LEW an improved version of the design or more or less the same as the original MWs? Maybe the original design was not as unsuitable as some are claiming if, after 25 year’s experience, they decided to build another one rather than something completely different?
     
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  7. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Possibly germaine to this discussion about motive power, is the fact that one of the conditions of ENPA granting planning permission being the the railway be rebuilt "as close as possible to its original appearance".
    Now, whether that should include locomotives and rolling stock is a matter of discussion. However, one irrefutable fact is that the original L&BR had an immensely strong corporate image, particularly in SR days.
    Who here can remember the first time that they set eyes on a photograph of the old line? What was the first thing that leapt from the page? I'll bet a penny to a pinch of s*** it was the huge "SOUTHERN" on the side of the locomotive, if the pic was from that era.
    Couple that with other features which mark out the railway as unique; concrete fence posts, station running-in boards, plus various other products of Exmouth Junction, and the image is indivisible. It could not be any other railway.
    So, for those who might wish to see Garretts or whatever running up to Woody Bay, the question is how do you reconcile that with the historic corporate image? Does it get painted in ersatz SR or L&B livery, and given a bogus number? Difficult.
    At the public enquiry last year, one of our detractors, completely unjustifiably, accused the trust's proposals as the "Disneyfication" of Exmoor. Visiting engines and exchanges, fine. But please let's not allow her any credence for that remark. Let's keep it authentic. That's the railways USP.
     
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  8. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

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    Barnstaple - Blackmoor maybe. I thought one of the 'selling points' of the L&B was keeping road traffic out of the National Park, so attracting coaches to the Lynton end probably wouldn't go down so well.
     
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  9. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

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    Having a core fleet of MWs + one Baldwin seems fine to me, with a smattering of others like Isaac in a supporting role, if the typical traffic demands no more than about 5 or 6 coaches. But what happens if (and I guess it would be a pleasant problem to have) passenger demand on the rebuilt railway is such that 7 or 8 or more coaches are required? I don't mean for a couple of days in the summer, but routinely? Sure, you could double head, but then you need more locos and more loco crews to run the service. At some point, if this comes to pass, I would expect there to be a demand for something more powerful. You could always run the 'historical train' in a quieter path and advertise it as such on the timetable, so all would not be lost.

    Anyway, this problem is a few years away.

    I had my first visit to the L&B this summer and was thoroughly impressed (even with Lyn stuck in the shed; Isaac is a lovely loco).
     
  10. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    More 'tidied up' than 'improved'. Recall the originals, as built, had a lovely steam trap immediately ahead of the front spectacle plates, between extended cab side sheets and under the forward cab roof extension, a rear outside bunker and covers over the 'business end' of the motion, none of which features lasted too long and were all absent on Lew which had a flat rear cab plate, tidier bunkers, forward cab side sheets and motion drip tray.
     
  11. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    OK its stg gauge but in the preservation era the bogies, tenders and boilers have all been swapped between 7802 & 7812 together with numerous small parts and fittings to keep the locos serviceable. At times other 78xx loco owners have loaned each other parts to keep the locos in service.
    That is of course only carrying on the same way as the major railway company workshops & sheds used to do. There is considerable merit in a standard core fleet type.
     
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  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I must have imagined the coaches in the car parks in Lynton then...
     
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  13. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Indeed Tom - the very successful Puffing Billy Railway in Australia is operated by a core of five almost identical Baldwin 2-6-2Ts. This certainly has not affected their passenger numbers, which I believe now outstrips those of any heritage railway in the UK.

    Peter
     
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  14. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Not on Puffing Billy it isn't. They don't build single replacement components, like cylinders or wheel sets, they build them in batches so that there are spares that fit any of the Baldwin tanks.

    Peter
     
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  15. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

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    Maybe you didn’t, but you must have imagined that the L&B extensions each way from Woody Bay are finished already, if you think this is in any way relevant to the point I was making.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  16. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    No, I followed your point entirely, which missed the significance of my earlier point. I am not convinced that the L&B will generate new coach traffic for the area, but that it will provide part of an itinerary for coaches that are already doing tours in the area, dropping off at one end and picking up at the other to go on to another destination. And as Lynton already receives such coach traffic, I believe that much - though probably not all - of this will be redistribution of existing demand.
     
  17. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    None of this has got very much to do with the L&B.

    (Incidentally, when Mr. Ivatt's ideal branch line locomotive first went to southern England, it was pre-Grouping carriage stock it hauled. There is plenty of photographic evidence)
     
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  18. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Part of the furniture

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    Although they now have two non Baldwin 2-6-2T's in traffic or soon will have once the NGG16 has had its final tweeks.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  19. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    If you are right, 95% of travellers really don't recognise at all what is on the front of their train, because they simply want to ride a chuffy train on a nostalgia trip through some beautiful scenery. If they come back at all, it will be because they want to experience again that lovely day out riding the chuffy train on a nostalgia trip through the beautiful scenery, except this time they have brought the grandkids, or Brian and Doreen visiting from Macclesfield in their camper van. They actually do want the same day out that they had last time-that's why they have come back. They either actively want the same train, or they didn't care last time and they won't care now
    I know one couple who have a holiday cabin thing at Dartmouth which they visit every month or so. A couple of times a year, the two of them will ride on the Paignton and Dartmouth line, but it has to be "Goliath", because "Goliath" is their engine. Not 5239, neither of them know of an engine no 5239. If its not Goliath, they'll go and do something else. If they have visitors or grandchildren visiting and Goliath is running- then its lots of extra cream teas sold on the train.
     
  20. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Well this topic of the necessity of the original 5 engines being recreated for the new L&B certainly sparked quite the heated conversation! Quite pleased to see though, for it is indeed a interesting topic to discuss, particularly seeing as many have pointed before this railway's future is somewhat an unknown quantity so to speak. Not that I'm saying it's believed the railway won't eventually get rebuilt and succeed mind you, not at all! More the issue we have right now, is we're discussing essentially about how successful the railway will be when it reaches it's ultimate completion. Will the railway need more engines then the original 5 that will be rebuilt? Or for that matter will tithe railway possibly need engines that are more powerful then a Manning Wardle or Baldwin?

    Ultimately it's hard to know what's the best course of action, for as has been said before the railway doesn't have foresight into the future! So best thing they can do at this point I'd say is hold the course. Work on rebuilding the railway as authentically as possible, Manning Wardles and a Baldwin to hand, with appropriate carriages to match. After that point I'd say it's best to just wait and see, review the growth of the railway as it continues to develop, and if need be then consider alternatives like more of the same or different locomotives entirely. Till then I don't think it be wise to suggest looking into other directions, for simply put there is no point.

    Plus at the end of the day, appropriate or not for the railway originally, the new Manning Wardle and Baldwin designs are no slouches and will no doubt serve the railway well. "Lyd" does a fine job pulling services back and forth on the FR regularly with little issue, and though not proven as much just yet "Lyn" does seems to have all the makings of achieving much the same good results.

    So how's about we focus on rebuilding a good stretch of the L&B first, see how the new reworked Manning Wardles and Baldwin performs these duties, then make judgement on whether or not we need more of them or something different entirely.

    In other words, give the new builds a chance first!
     
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