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LMS Hughes Crab 42859

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by SpudUk, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks for your information Hermod!:)
     
  2. Fireline

    Fireline Member

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    It changed hands from THAT owner to one who can and will do something with it, but I understand it is going to have to wait it's turn in a queue....
     
  3. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Thanks for that information ,
     
  4. DismalChips

    DismalChips Member

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    That's good news, although presumably unless the wheels have been returned as well there's not a whole lot you can do with it?
     
  5. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

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    It all depends on the depth of the owner's pockets. When all is said and done, we have the technology to build a new one from scratch, so whatever is missing can be replaced. The more challenging question revolves round finding a million or two to throw at her.

    Being realistic, if it was a GWR Manor, no one would be bothering - it's only because it's something rare and special that there is any hope whatsoever she might one day steam again. I hope she does.
     
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  6. Phill S

    Phill S New Member

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    Galatea and King Edward II disagree with you ;)
     
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  7. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    The lack of a boiler will be a major hurdle, Yes new boilers can be made, but at what cost ? , and then the only one making large boilers is in Germany, its not like you can buy a Crab pattern boiler off the shelf, it will have to be designed, to meet the modern specs, then you have steel vs copper for the inner firebox, its not going to be cheap i just hope the new owner does indeed have very deep pockets
     
  8. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    On the boiler front, not entirely true when you consider the construction of a boiler for 82045, which is being built with parts made in the UK and assembled at Bridgnorth and also built to the traditional design. Okay, it’s not as big as the Crabs, but it does show what is possible.
     
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  9. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Perhaps an opportunity to design one that doesnt need coal...
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Not to mention the new Patriot boiler being built in the UK with a copper box.
    https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/ea.../:/cr=t:0%,l:0%,w:100%,h:100%/rs=w:1300,h:800
     
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  11. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Isnt it using an ex 8f firebox, though? I agree with whats been said about 82045, Yes, i forgot, about that one, but its a smaller boiler,
    didn't the A1 people go to Germany because no one in the UK, had at the time, the necessary heavy presses and experience needed to press the components needed to build a large firebox from scratch ? and it was only in Germany they found a loco works that could build a boiler with in a reasonable time span ?
     
  12. William Fletcher

    William Fletcher New Member

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    We could have built the A1 boiler in the UK in Newark form memroty, but the funding model woulf have needed to be different
     
  13. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    The 8F boiler was purloined for the Hawksworth County project; the Baby Scots' boilers and fireboxes were very different to an 8F's.
     
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  14. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    General question, if I may: How suitable / useful is Mr.Hughes' highly distinctive design for today's heritage operations? Of modern outline for their era and designed for powerful, lower speed plodding and with their readily accessible valve gear, they always strike me as comparable with the S15. Would that be a fair comparison?
     
  15. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

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    Building a traditional boiler from scratch in a UK context isn't that big a deal - some of the heavy repairs done regularly now are just as involved as anything required to build new.

    The A1 lot didn't want a traditional boiler, they wanted a modern welded one - so they went to an outfit that specialised in such things.
     
  16. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Yes it would, but while people think of the Crabs as goods engines which did the occasional passenger turn, when first introduced the LMS regarded them as secondary passenger engines similar to the role the later Baby Scots and Stanier's 5Xs would play, hence the first hundred appearing in red livery. But they were also good at low speed, heavy slogging, witness their use on the Ayrshire coal traffic.
     
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  17. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    Also, the Crab boiler is a parallel one, so slightly less costly, and there's a good pattern housed nearby in the shape of 42765.

    Richard.
     
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  18. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    au contraire - Manors are in demand as they are blue RA locos (in GW terms), economical, named, nicely gilded, sound purposeful, are liked by crews, use standard GW fittings and parts and can do most things heritage lines require. It is no coincidence that all 9 are in good hands with most having an active future (coal supplies and ongoing public interest in steam travel permitting). Near one offs on the other hand.....
     
  19. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Don't tell Tom and others but I rather like the Manors. Streets ahead of any other GW locos even if they still have the stupid GW controls.
     
  20. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

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    I don't dispute the good qualities of a Manor - they are ideal for a lot of heritage lines.

    My point (and I'm fairly sure I'm right) is that if there was pretty much just the frames and cylinders of Manor left, it's vanishingly unlikely it would ever steam again - there are enough similar GWR locos that are far better prospects it would just be expensive madness.

    Because the Crab is almost unique, and also quite useful, the prospect of someone putting the money in to rebuild her despite 2/3rds having gone missing is not so totally far fetched as to be impossible.

    Sadly I don't have the required sort of amount of small change kicking about in my wallet, but if I did I think she would perhaps feel a more worthy cause than many.
     

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