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LMS Hughes Crab 42859

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by SpudUk, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    With the economics of the mainline steam market today, you need the larger engines of 7 and above to turn a profit, in other words if you are limited to 8 ,or 9 coaches, you will not meet your costs
     
  2. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    I would really like to see this Crab restored. Does anyone have any photos of it when it first came out of Barry Scrapyard. ? It seems to have had a very unlucky time since. I keep hoping it will eventually get passed to someone willing and able to rebuild it. Has any party approached the owner about a possible sale ?
    As for mainline, would it be useful for say Fort William to Mallaig ?
     
  3. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    And yet a class 6 in Galatea performed superbly with 11 coaches at the weekend and west coast seem to love using black 5s and an 8F, and Leander.... I think its more about what routes you use, how steam fits in on the paths etc. Could a crab for instance do the Jacobite? Or run on the NYMR to Whitby etc.
     
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  4. olly5764

    olly5764 Member

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    Precisely, jobs like the Shakespeares which do two round trips per day and offer a similar length of day to a preserved line, at similar prices, are ideal for class 4, 5 and 6 locos
     
  5. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Resident of Nat Pres

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    Crabs are undoubtedly ideal locos for heavier preserved line work and it is shame only one survives in operating condition.

    However, why the obsession with 'mainline', especially for 'smaller' locos - surely the point of the mainline is that it is the natural 'habitat' of Class 7 and 8 locos that are really wasted on preserved railways, so why does every loco have to be 'great for the mainline' - far more steam activity takes place on preserved railways, whatever anyone judging by the threads of this forum might conclude!

    Steven
     
  6. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

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    As I understand the likes of the Dalesman and Fellsman are designed around the speed limitations of the 8F. A Crab would not be limited to 50mph but obviously less grunt, however not so much less as to preclude its use on Hellifield Carlisle return trips I would argue, load 11 or 12. Is it not in fact a similar medium slow and steady plod like a freight turn of old?
    As for the likes of Fort W Mallaig, yes a Crab would be decent tool.
     
  7. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Resident of Nat Pres

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    But there are far more preserved railways for which it would be 'a decent tool', so why the obsession with the ideal of 'going mainline'?

    Steven
     
  8. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

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    It certainly is not an obsession, Steven, I was simply using some hypotheticals to emphasise what a truly versatile machine a Crab could be. That metaphorical train has left the station but I certainly think a good all round business case could be made for a Crab being a useful asset to a business with mainline priorities too.
     
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  9. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Dear lord someone else has got out the wrong side of bed. There is no obsession about sending everything mainline at all. There is no harm whatsoever discussing a possible use for a class of loco, you are taking things far to seriously. The loco unfortunately has as close to 0% of ever steaming any loco could ever get.
     
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  10. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    While it might do the job, it would be a grim tool for the crews on the West Highland. The ex GN K2s had better cabs fitted for Scotland and at least they had full width tenders and did not spend half their time regularly running tender first. Of course you could fit it with a Stanier cab and tender but this would no doubt spark of an authentic livery debate - and we don't want one of them, do we!

    Peter
     
  11. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    So the Jacobite with 6/7 and a Class 5 isn't a realistic commercial proposition then.
     
  12. Henry the Green Engine

    Henry the Green Engine New Member

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    It can be saved by a change of owner. 31065, 7027, 76077, 2859(?) are amongst locos that spent years in obscurity until a change of policy or owner brought about some action. Building boilers is now commonplace so, no problem there. Cut driving wheels, missing cylinders, badly wasted boilers. All cited in the past as mission impossible. Nonsense, just obstacles to be and, which have been overcome.
     
  13. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    because of the nature of the operation, its almost a daily service in the seasonwith operations such as the Jacobite , so overheads are over more than one train, on your " normal" tour, its an out and back one day, most tours break even point has to be what 8 full coaches? so why in my view to sustain your business you need to be able to run with at least 10 so with POB, thats 11 which under normal conditions and loads would mean an 7, or 8 rated engine, of course recently we have seen lesser engines 5, and 5xp take these loads, but had an reliable 7,or 8p been availible, would the 5 have still been allocated?
     
  14. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, this "Crab" is privately owned and its owner can do what he likes with it, whether steam locomotive enthusiasts like it or not. It is regrettable of course as only 2 other locomotives of this class exist (I guess that in itself is fortunate). A change of owner, or policy, or fortune, or circumstances can indeed change things for the better and this may yet happen with this LMS loco. Regarding BR Standard 76077, long dormant eyesore is rapidly turning into shiny kit of parts for re-assembly. See: gwsrsteamloco.blogspot.co.uk/
    The link also shows work being undertaken on other locos, not least our 2807 undergoing winter maintenance.
     
  15. Chris86

    Chris86 Member

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    Did the missing wheels ever resurface?

    Chris
     
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  16. 22A

    22A New Member

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    Searched on line and found these.....
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. D6332found

    D6332found New Member

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    Not sure anyone really knows the owner to make an approach though I'd be willing to stick my neck out if anyone knows and he wouldn't mind an approach, please pm me if you are watching or know him well.
     
  18. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Fairly certain that he used to post on here; a good few years ago now, though..
     
  19. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I Think you may be right, if its the person i think it is he is in the brewery trade
     
  20. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    What different people mean by mainline I think is causing a bit of friction. Commonly used to describe Network Rail controlled metals - some of which are distinctly branch line by nature, running to Whitby or doing the Jacobite being a different requirement to running a Belmond or Cathedrals express which are generally mainline in the other sense of the word.
    Can agree that the Footplate of a Crab running tender first in 'weather' - you may as well be on the roof.
     

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