If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Llangollen Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 14xx Lover, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,573
    Likes Received:
    5,301
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Many banks have what they call an 'intensive care' dept whose job is to keep companies going until such a point as either someone new takes over or it becomes apparent that there is no future (and even then there is always an attempt to keep what is profitable going). They will not sell things off short term if it compromises the long term viability of the organisation.

    My point is that I can't see it being in anyones' interest to asset strip the line.
     
  2. osprey

    osprey Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,847
    Likes Received:
    775
    Occupation:
    semi-retired, currently doing R&D for my patents
    Location:
    Halifax
    Too true. Having dealt with receivers, they don't give a damn. Screw anyone for as much as they can get. Their fees are criminal in my mind...
     
    BrightonBaltic likes this.
  3. osprey

    osprey Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,847
    Likes Received:
    775
    Occupation:
    semi-retired, currently doing R&D for my patents
    Location:
    Halifax
    Very sad. I hope something comes good. One of the most beautiful settings. There is a lot of potential there, a lot...
     
    MattA and andrewshimmin like this.
  4. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    647
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Depends what assets the Plc have I suppose. At least the trackbed is leased from the council so that can’t get sold off for redevelopment. There will be a lot of political pressure on the council to keep the route intact.
     
  5. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    6,037
    Likes Received:
    6,214
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Am I correct in thinking that HMRC comes at the head of any queue of creditors? If so, one slight silver lining might be that, with revenue streams shredded by this wretched pandemic, at least a portion of the income derived tax burden is likely to be considerably lower than in any ordinary year.

    AIUI, receivers may also opt to try and keep a company trading in order to realise some income. With the end of lockdown (pray Bob) in sight, it may prove more remunerative to head down this route. Is there any UK precedent for such an insolvency as this?
     
  6. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,649
    Likes Received:
    1,911
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Absolutely tragic. My first experience of volunteering was at Llangollen in the mid nineties. I always thought this railway could be in the very top rank: glorious scenery, lovely stations, interesting collection of stock, friendly people, a nice town and other attractions nearby.
    It seems that failures in one part of the business have dragged down the rest: an important lesson in corporate structure for everyone.
    It is increasingly evident that our railways need trustees and directors with relevant expertise and experience, not just people who love the railway (that is necessary but not sufficient).
    Awful for the new leadership at Llan who seem to have been trying to turn things around.
    We can only pray that the creditors, receivers, local authorities, etc. can come up with a plan to raise a phoenix.
    Good luck to all.
     
    jnc, MattA, oldmrheath and 3 others like this.
  7. osprey

    osprey Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,847
    Likes Received:
    775
    Occupation:
    semi-retired, currently doing R&D for my patents
    Location:
    Halifax
    Uncle Sam...first...
     
  8. and60007

    and60007 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    442
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Community Operative
    Location:
    Barton upon Humber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Does this mean that the line will closed for good like the beaching days track ripped up etc?
     
  9. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    9,326
    Likes Received:
    14,719
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    We're a way off that yet. A possibility, not an inevitability.
     
    MattA, Matt78, osprey and 1 other person like this.
  10. and60007

    and60007 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    442
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Community Operative
    Location:
    Barton upon Humber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I seriously hope not but thanks for your reply
     
  11. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    717
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    For those of us who don't have much of an understanding of financial terms like receivership etc, can we have a primary school-level explanation of what receivership is, what it means in the immediate term, and what potential prospects there are for the future?
     
    flying scotsman123 likes this.
  12. osprey

    osprey Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,847
    Likes Received:
    775
    Occupation:
    semi-retired, currently doing R&D for my patents
    Location:
    Halifax
    My last visit there was the last Patriot meeting. The train we hired was somewhat "unclean", not a good impression at all. The buildings had a run down appearance and grass growing through the cracks at Llangollen station. I found the workshop more depressing and formed the opinion this place was going nowhere, if anything down. I sincerely hope for folks who have put the effort in over the years are rewarded with a Phoenix, arising from the ashes. As I have said, the potential is enormous..who could ask for more than a railway slam in the middle of this beautiful tourist area. Good luck, my best wishes for a better future...
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  13. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,857
    Likes Received:
    1,291
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Rhiwabon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The trackbed and stations are on a long lease from Denbighshire County Council and held by the Trust. The original L.R.O. and subsequent T.W.A.O. are held by the Trust.
    The p.l.c. doesn't own any track or locomotives and only some of the coaching stock.

    Bob.
     
  14. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    9,326
    Likes Received:
    14,719
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    That's somewhat reassuring to know, so if a new operating company was set up they wouldn't need to go through the massive rigmarole of obtaining a new TWAO?
     
  15. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,209
    Likes Received:
    1,678
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Not sure if there is a pension scheme involved, probably not, but they are normally at the top of the list as well if company contributions have not been kept up.
     
  16. osprey

    osprey Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,847
    Likes Received:
    775
    Occupation:
    semi-retired, currently doing R&D for my patents
    Location:
    Halifax
    The receivers/ lawyers/ various maggots will have a field day...seems like a nice little earner
     
  17. Macko

    Macko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    1,877
    Bob,

    I would not expect you to go into detail on a message board about the inner workings of what is going on, but as a board member could you perhaps answer these key points?

    Do you hope to reopen the line in 2021?
    If the PLC fails, can the trust keep the railway running using the current TWAO and in place management/safety systems?
    Can the Welsh govt help in any way to protect this strategically important tourist attraction?

    I wish you and the other volunteers at the line the best of luck, I really hope the line can come through this major setback.
     
    S.A.C. Martin likes this.
  18. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    647
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    And track can’t be sold for scrap
     
  19. goldfish

    goldfish Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    11,114
    Likes Received:
    6,594
    Well I'm glad appealing for folk to avoid hyperbole worked well… :rolleyes:

    Simon
     
  20. steam_mad

    steam_mad Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    544
    Likes Received:
    792
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Seems a touch incongruous to have an asset category of “Track and Rolling Stock” in your accounts if there is no track owned by the entity, and no separate disclosure to say it is a leasehold/right of use asset?
     
    flying scotsman123 likes this.

Share This Page