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Kent & East Sussex Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by martin1656, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Could it be something to do with driver familiarity? 45212 ran on the NYMR for a whole boiler certificate, where the gradients and curves are just as challenging and the loads are generally heavier, and it was seen as a good performer.
     
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  2. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    Your post caused me to re-read the published gradient profile of the KWVR, on NatPres.

    It appears to leave Keighley at 1:66, stiffening to 1:58

    Tenterden bank is described in ex-BR sources as averaging 1:50, and I'm told that short sections are steeper.

    Big difference between 1:58 and 1:50

    The Norwegian does have air sanding, which I think may be more effective than steam sanding. Although I have been on a Norwegian hauled train, which slipped to a stand because the compressor had stopped. (unlike a Terrier which has the compressor within reach from the cab, the compressor on the Norwegian cannot be attended to in motion.)
     
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  3. Chris86

    Chris86 Well-Known Member

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    I guess there's any number of variables- and my post was 100% not being critical of 45212, it was fairly miserable conditions too- more just praising how impressive 78022 had been in horrid conditions!

    Chris
     
  4. alexl102

    alexl102 Member

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    78022 does seem to be a decent machine. A couple of years ago there was talk of the KWVR needing their 4MT and S160 back in service for peak summer trains (they were both under repair/overhaul at the time) otherwise they’d have to be banked. More recently I’ve been told 78022 can handle more or less anything thrown at it, so I don’t know if they’ve done some mods on it?
     
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  5. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Norwegian is, I believe, limited to 4 coaches on Tenterden Bank whereas the Austerities & USA’s can take 5.
     
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  6. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    Well its is well known their Ivatt predecessors could punching far above their weight. I seem to remember the Ivatt Tanks could take a train meant to be hauled by a 4MT on services from London Victoria to the south coast if needed. And did someone here not describe how when a Ivatt arrived for use on some Cambrian specials the crews were dismissive at first then rapidly changed there minds...

    Some of that must of rubbed off on their Standard cousins.

    (Apart from 78018, apparently she's a lemon.)
     
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  7. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

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    I am sure that I once read that a Class 2 (LMS or BR, can't remember) was given 'the treatment' by Mr. Ell at Swindon. If memory serves it ended with working over the main line with 16 on.
    Pat
     
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  8. Fireline

    Fireline Well-Known Member

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    Miff is quite right. The Norwegian was limited to load 4, and indeed one driver had to admit defeat and call for assistance while taking an evening dining train to Tenterden in wet conditions. Being the evening, it took some time to sort out, but fortunately we had a considerable stock of tea, coffee and alcohol on board to keep the guests happy!
     
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  9. AMP

    AMP Member

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  10. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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  11. alexl102

    alexl102 Member

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    Fantastic - clear, concise, interesting and easy for anyone to understand!

    Interesting that it refers to a diverse fleet; they’ve predominantly been running Austerity tanks (which I absolutely love) so perhaps in the long run they want more variation. I’m not a massive fan of the fact that they will be fairly GWR-heavy in future but I suppose it’s what is available.
    Also find it interesting that they class an 08 as the same as a Class 25; there’s obviously a fair difference in both power and speed and I wouldn’t have thought an 08 would be able to keep to the timetable if it was subbed in?
     
  12. Biermeister

    Biermeister Member

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    Indeed. Robin Coombes is a perfect GM for this excellent heritage railway.

    The motive power running on the K&ESR is, as you say, 'what is available' and so whether you like it (Austerity tanks) or not (GWR future locomotives) is not particularly helpful. If the clock could be turned back I imagine that K&ESR would still have a Wainwright H-Class tank (31263, SECR 263) and would likely have been in the hunt for Wainwright O1 (31065, SECR 65) which once plied its trade between Tenterden and Headcorn. Money has probably always been tight at the K&ESR and it could not have competed with the relatively flush and earlier-on-the-scene Bluebell Railway...

    A perusal of David's Preserved British Steam Locomotives, see: https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/ shows that there are few SECR locomotives still surviving but fortunately several (six?) are owned by the Bluebell Railway. Perhaps the best that might occur is for an occasional repeat visit to the K&ESR by SECR 65 and perhaps SECR 263 too? Wouldn't it be nice to see SECR 263 with two Maunsell coaches push-pull fitted between Robertsbridge and Tenterden?? (I can dream, can't I?) On the bright side, K&ESR do own a Wainwright P-Class (31556, SECR 753) which, as 'Pride of Sussex', worked at Hodson's Mill, Robertsbridge to the very end of the old K&ESR, then just a long siding out from Robertsbridge.

    As for the GWR, I doubt that Col. Stephens would have minded one jot, just so long as traffic on the line could continue! I feel the same. Indeed, I hope to travel on GWR Railcar No. 20 when it returns to traffic in 2024.
     
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  13. Wenlock

    Wenlock Well-Known Member Friend

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    The KESR classify locos according to how many MkI coaches equivalent load (with slight variation from experience), can be hauled up Tenterden bank.
    I was once reliably informed that when their own 08 substituted for a steam loco, it was able to keep to the overall timings, due to not needing the prolonged water stops required by the steamers. Obviously section times would be slower, but the steam locos are timed slowly on the steeper parts anyway.
     
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  14. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

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  15. Cuckoo Line

    Cuckoo Line Member

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    I think that's what makes it interesting in that area of the country KESR , Bluebell and Spa Valley are all quite different so if visiting all worth a visit as you don't get that deja vu feeling.
     
  16. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    The real tragedy, of course, is that Hecate didn't survive. She was too big for the pre-preservation KESR - nowadays, she would probably have been much more useful!

    Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk
     
  17. paul1609

    paul1609 New Member

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    I think the check rail on the curve in to Robertsbridge Junction would mean Hecate with her flangeless drivers would be banned in the same way 9Fs are!
     
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  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I thought the issue with 9Fs and check rails was specifically about raised check rails on point crossings (in modern S&C design), not about check rails on plain track?

    Tom
     
  19. The Gricing Owl

    The Gricing Owl New Member

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    Re - Wouldn't it be nice to see SECR 263 with two Maunsell coaches push-pull fitted between Robertsbridge and Tenterden?? (I can dream, can't I?)

    Can't quite manage that, but I can manage this - a photo that I took a little while ago at Oxted. I'm not sure when 31263 is due to join the overhaul queue at the Bluebell, but it's a loco I would love to see back in service too.

    31263-Oxted-April-1962.jpg
     
  20. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    Reading Bluebell News I don’t think it will be too long before the H is back in service. You did better than me, I saw enough of them but didn’t get any pictures. I travelled behind one once, when I knew the Branch was doomed I took the 410 bus from school to Westerham and took the train to Dunton Green then on the EMU home to Grove Park.
     

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