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J39 REBUILD PROJECT (J39 Locomotive Trust)

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by J39LocomotiveTrust, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. Foxhunter

    Foxhunter Member

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    Both the Claud team and the J39 team deserve the support of the movement. They have their individual dreams and should at least be allowed the chance to try....

    Foxy
     
  2. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Im sorry but im not talking about them.

    Right i have now been on both of your websites. Your asking for money right now with your paypal, there not. And there is a difference between 16 and 20. a 16yr old is a child. as soon as your 18 your an adult. Can a 16year old register a LTD co.? Please tell me if im wrong?
    Im not saying setting up a company is easy, people keep telling you pieces of information but you dont seem to want to listen. If im honest i dont see how you have done enough research to launch this project? May i ask when you came up with the idea of building one of these locos? From the outside (and this is only how i see it not others) it looks like there was a group of mates who wanted to build a Claud then one of them along with younger brother decided we can build another. And rushed to make a website, etc to catch up with there mates. But that is only me who sees it that way. And ill be happy to be proven wrong.

    This is not negativity all im asking is a couple of questions. Can someone answer any?

    Please also remember im not saying that this loco shouldnt be built as its completely up to each person what they like.

    Please prove me wrong Gavin
     
  3. J39LocomotiveTrust

    J39LocomotiveTrust New Member

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    To answer your questions, although I am project manager, I am not legally able to make the group a LTD co, so, in order to do this, I am passing the role of treasurer to someone who is legally able to do so, whom is over the age of 18, we do not need to register as a charity or anything of the sort until we have 5k in the bank, and as yet we are no where near, instead we apply for tax redemption from HMRC. We ALWAYS listen to what people say, and IF possible act upon the feedback, however, I am not able to do everything, so there is not much point holding just me in the firing line.
     
  4. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Under the Companies Act 2006, company directors can be 16 years old.
     
  5. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    One thing strikes me here: there's a lot of eagerness to take money before the locomotive class is fully investigated in terms of its feasibility. I would not be comfortable parting with any money towards a scheme which could not guarantee to build loco X over Y time with Z costings.

    This is where the A1 trust succeeded, and it is up to other new locomotive build schemes to do the same, and above all, make sure it is all above board and crystal clear in its decision making.
     
  6. stuartreeder

    stuartreeder Member

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    the logistic's page have been updated with revised tempory costs which seem more realistic.
     
  7. stuartreeder

    stuartreeder Member

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    i think this group will be able to rebuild a j39 , its just the matter of donations and memberships also sale stands and once they get abit of money they will be able to prove it by having some parts of the frames once there is enough money to get them manufactured
     
  8. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    In summary then, its "just" a matter of getting people to part with around £500,000 to build what looks to most people a rather ugly 0-6-0 which doesn't have a nameplate or even a brass safety valve cover to redeem it. With the greatest respect (and I have great respect for most of the new-builds and financially support 2 of them) who is going to donate to build an LNER hotbox brute when there are far more glamorous new builds already well on the way? The answer of course is anyone and everyone if they can be convinced its a going concern. So clearly its not just a matter of donations and sales stands (although these will help a little) and 30 years of involvement with a GWR 2-8-0 workhorse has taught me that share purchases, skilled volunteer workers, knowing the "right" people and convincing people that you have something tangible to offer them is what is definitely needed. Even when you do have something tangible, like a suitable boiler such as the Brighton Atlantic or a donor locomotive, like the Hawksworth County which is really coming on well now, then it is still a hard struggle. If a J39 is to emerge it will probably be done through generous sponsorship by a heritage railway or by industry. I can't see that in 2012 Britain. Oh yes, what did happen to that NER Atlantic that was to be built for the 2012 Olympics?
     
  9. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    As you know i am also a big supporter of Newbuild projects and i really do wish them all well. There are some fantastic groups out there with great people involved. Full of knowledge of doing other things in the heritage scene. For instance 82045 has the backing of the severn valley railway, 6880 guys were heavily involved with the restoration of 5199 and Llangollen engineering, all the ones at Didcot have the experience and backing of the GWS, the Brighton Atlantic has a good group of guys and the Bluebell railway wanting it done, Even Hengist now has what seems like a good group of guys wanting to move their project forward since its "rebuild of the board". And the G5 tank engine has a very good financial backing.

    BUT i am not a fan of this one. Regardless of weather its a nice loco or not, its the group running it. I have facebook and a couple of months ago i saw how the board got elected. Tim Clarke posted a message saying im looking for people to fill the positions and who ever said ill help got a place on the board, or some title. The time scales are very unlikely to get any of the older people to want to join as its plan will take over 20yrs, so if your 60 now thats 80 just to see it move. The way the parts are just guessed on prices really is out of this world. For instance you say that the boiler is just a bit smaller than the Patriots boiler so it will cost less?? hang on we plan to build our boiler over the next 5years. you dont even plan to start for over 10 years so how can you say it will only cost £400k ? with copper which the price is just going up and up. My issues with this group is not the choice of loco but the inexperienced and children running this. (remember your still a child until your 18) And the way its being rushed forward with out thinking of how to do it properly.

    I hope you prove me wrong but i think youll end up taking peoples money and just wasting it on another Headboard (i see your fundraising for this??) and maybe a smokebox door!!
     
  10. swanrail

    swanrail Guest

    Who has quoted you a figure of £55,000 for the frames exactly? Does this include Horn guides, machining, stretchers, dragbox etc......??
     
  11. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    Wasting your breath guys. Most of the posts that condemn this flight of fantasy have been deleted over the last few days. I really hope they don't persuade any gullible fool out there to part with there loot.
     
  12. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    MM, I'm not condemning their desire to build a J39; it's a type I know little about but it has a place in LNER history. The question is, at what cost? I'm condemning their somewhat naive approach to this task, especially in what will be a very difficult 2012 for all of us, not just heritage railways.
     
  13. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    I'm of exactly the same opinion.
     
  14. 82045MS

    82045MS Member

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    "For instance 82045 has the backing of the severn valley railway,"

    Just wish to make it clear that the SVR does not back 82045 financially-apart from the recent SVRA raffle which has helped us order the cylinder pattern and castings.
     
  15. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Rather than condem the group, why not offer help and advise? we were all young once, mistakes do get made when your trying something for the first time, the type of loco they wish to build is a type that should be very useful to any heritage railway , it would be more usefull than say another p2, or large pacific . things that were an issue on the original members of the class could be engineered out , better axle bearing design etc, how many 0-6-0s servived? and could the basic design could even be adapted to prehaps make other lost classes, such as a c2x,700, adams goods , im talking chassis and cylinders , valve gear etc, the boiler is another matter of course, but some pressings could be of use .

    In my humble oppinion, we should help, offer guidence not condem , after all,whats the biggest issue in the preservation world, getting youngsters involved and keeping them, its the future we are really talking about here , i dare say that the subject of costs will be brought up, but its projects like this and others that are important and the engineering skills involved that this country could lose for ever even now compare the heavy forging firms still trading compared to a few short years ago?
     
  16. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    I think it would help people's confidence if there was qualified adult guidance in the background supporting these kids.
    if a suitably qualified engineer was in the background, it would lead to considerable publicity as well as income... The government and media is all over those kinds of schemes.
     
  17. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Didn't Mr Meanley speak out in support of this project recently in one of the magazines?
     
  18. steamdream

    steamdream Member

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    I quite agree:very wise words
    regards
    noel
     
  19. swanrail

    swanrail Guest

    You couldn't use it to create a 700. It would be a hell of a mod! 700s are slide valves, same block as the M7 and T9.

    Anyway who is quoting? Where has 55,000 pounds come from? I would need this question answered before I would part with any cash. Also would this include rent to have them erected.

    ?????
     
  20. Andy2857

    Andy2857 Member

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    In all fairness, taken from the J39 locomotive trust's website,

    "These ESTIMATES are likely to change as we get various quotes from various sources, so until we have a firm quote, we will not be campaigning for funding."

    I'd suggest that what is on the website has to be considered the "official" stance of the trust.
     

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