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Flying Scotsman

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 73129, Aug 24, 2010.

  1. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Part of the furniture

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    YES - as I said earlier 4472 worked perfectly well in single chimney form during its life at Steamtown and this included its many workings over the S&C and from discussions I had with one of the firemen at the time steaming was never a problem nor was there any other difficulty working this testing route.

    All this talk that it needs a double chimney (ya de da) is just "froth" from those with drab green spectacles who are looking to justify its current condition. Get real people.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  2. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Well-Known Member

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    Well that would solve some gauging issues.
     
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  3. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    Double chimney and deflectors a safety issue hahahahaha

    She cant work the mainline without them!

    Stop. My sides hurt!
     
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  4. 2392

    2392 Member

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    Bear in mind folks, Humorist ran with a double chimney/Kylchap in LNER pre-wars days, in apple green. Granted they had the same problems en-counted in the fifties, they eventually fitted her with Blue Peter/Tornado blinkers. So just like the Thompson B1 Boys have repainted 1264 in LNER black despite not having ran in that colour in it's short LNER days, as other members of the class ran in that livery. So I have no problems with Scotsman having a double chimney/kylchap arrangement, other than the drifting smoke problems.....
     
  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not in Queensland, it wouldn't...

    Tom
     
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  6. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Well-Known Member

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    We are like the Isle of Wight of Australia! :eek:

    There is a little bit of standard gauge connecting Brisbane to NSW (FS ran into Brisbane).
     
  7. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    My apologies - quite right to correct me on that.
     
  8. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Well-Known Member

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    Why not take the deflectors and double chimney off, then have her pushed around by a diesel in LNER correct livery to stop the debate....
     
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  9. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    Why not have it that she is restricted to 8 coaches and given dispensation to run at 90 with only premium tickets on sale, just like in the old days when she was introduced?
     
  10. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Is that really necessary?

    Being a single chimney machine doesn't make the A3 class impotent. All of them built with single blastpipes and pretty much all of them ran to the late 50s without major modification in this area, pulling heavier trains than we see today and with a generally tougher schedule.

    Although my preference has always been for the BR green, double chimney and deflectors (it's how I first encountered Scotsman), who am I to deny future generations the opportunity that many of us had previously - which was to see Scotsman in apple green as 4472?

    My original post, albeit tongue in cheek, has sparked off something a bit more insidious than a livery debate. We're actually questioning whether a Gresley A3 Pacific can do the job asked of it without the double chimney. Madness...
     
  11. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    All a single chimney does is reduce it to about the level of a Royal Scot and two of them have had a very successful mainline career, to say it would be the end of it's ML running is nonsense
     
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  12. RogueCloud

    RogueCloud Member

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    Totally agree. Scotsman had no issues taking 12+ coaches over the S&C back in the 80s and 90s in single chimney form. It wasn't in the same league as 46229, 71000 or 60532, but I always thought it's performances were a good match to 6201 and 46203 and like the Princesses, it looked and sounded magnificent.

    I still don't think 60103 in double chimney form would compete with the aforementioned top performers, so to suggest the double chimney is required for mainline use is nonsense, it provides a modest performance enhancement. I'd be absolutely confident that a single chimney version of Scotsman would've been perfectly capable of keeping to any of the mainline schedules issued for 60103 since it's return to service.
     
  13. 26D_M

    26D_M Well-Known Member

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    Why not go the whole hog and paint a diesel to look like a second tender
     
  14. Eightpot

    Eightpot Well-Known Member Friend

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    As the instigator of fitting the double-Kylchap system and the Witte smoke deflectors, it would be interesting to have Peter Townend's views on the subject.
     
  15. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Well-Known Member

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    That being the case, when the loco was examined by the people from Tysley, prior to going to IRE, did they not recommend fitting of a single chimney, and ditching the deflectors?????
     
  16. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    At the end of the day, for enthusiasts, it has nothing to do with performance, historical accuracy or any other endless wibble. It's all driven by personal preference, in which case, there will never be an agreement about anything. I really don't care how she is presented. The fact that an A3 is out and about for people to enjoy is good enough for me!
     
  17. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Of course the double chimney is a known quantity and it does provide a performance enhancement in the locomotive. That is not in doubt.

    The question being asked is one of public profile and image. The single chimney plus LNER livery is best known. Restoring the form restores the most recognisable locomotive in the world to its most recognisable form.

    If the argument for not investigating the possibility of a single chimney fitting is the idea of detuning Scotsman, then by all means lets have that debate, but let's not obfuscate the issue by claiming that the single chimney A3 Pacifics were anything less than decent locomotives.
     
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  18. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I may be misremembering but I fear Mr Townend is no longer with us. I do not however recall where I read this - I may be mixing him up with Peter Grafton who has also passed.

    We have lost a fair few wonderful people the last couple of years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    When she was introduced, she hauled much heavier trains than you are suggesting. The A4s were the ones who did the “light weight” flyers.
     
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  20. 5944

    5944 Part of the furniture

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    Or just put a huge Ringfield motor in the tender, a smoke generator in the smokebox, and a piece of sandpaper rubbing on an axle to make a chuffing sound?
     

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