If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

East Lancs Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by forty, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,433
    Likes Received:
    3,805
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    That doesn't necessarily mean that there is any money available!
     
  2. jamesd

    jamesd Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    214
    Location:
    Llanharan, S Wales
    At the moment the initiative is uninformed by fact. Once the facts come out, I suspect this scheme will be dropped. Government and Local Government don't have money for schemes like this but that doesn't stop local politicians from pushing their own agendas.
     
    Jamessquared likes this.
  3. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    568
    Location:
    Fife
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I wouldn't trust this government to collectively tie its laces let alone a project like this. The current transport minister is unable to go to the toilet without whistling to remember which end is which. If he woke up with his mouth closed, he'd die of suffocation.
     
    TseTT, Charles Parry and mgl like this.
  4. Springs Branch

    Springs Branch New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    212
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    8F
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Johnme101 and YorkyLad like this.
  5. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    118
    You are talking far too much sense. There will many "preservationists" who will silently mouth a hurrah when a HR is incorporated into a scheme that utilises these semi- dormant assets for the common good. Does that not seem to be the proposal from Rossendale Council?Do the study and let the results speak for themselves. It is utterly amazing how many 'experts' throw their metaphorical rocks in the roadway at the very mention of some public body attempting to revitalise underused rail lines
     
    3ABescot likes this.
  6. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,147
    Likes Received:
    8,577
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Nothing is impossible but the law throws a lot of those rocks in the way when you have an interoperable railway.
     
  7. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    12,666
    Likes Received:
    8,536
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    As ever absolute BS.
     
    mgl, 35B, 61624 and 4 others like this.
  8. pete12000

    pete12000 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    210
    3ABescot, alexl102, Johnme101 and 2 others like this.
  9. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    118
    Let us see the results of the Study; do you honestly believe HR are going to survive in their present format?
     
  10. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    12,666
    Likes Received:
    8,536
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I can’t predict the future, but I don’t think they’ll survive if they do by listening to what your recommendations as to what those in charge of the Swanage should do.
    Regarding the Lanc’s that line has several manual signal boxes and crossings that need to be staffed, how much is that going to cost?
    Throw in things like massive car parks, traffic management for things like buses for a park and ride system where’s the infrastructure for that in Bury, Ramsbottom and Rawtenstall?

    Where I live I have Cambridge North just around the corner from me, it’s the old Chesterton PW depot, it’s a huge site, (it takes me about 7-10 minutes to cycle through it) it has massive car and bike parking facilities, it has an albeit small bus interchange facility that can be expanded (as can the car and bike parking facilities) It’s also taken about 20 odd years to get it approved and built.
    Where is the space and cash to build a similar facility in the Rossendale area that will want to make people stop using their cars and use public transport, because from memory, those sites at Heywood, Bury, Ramsbottom and Rawtenstall are really not suitable. for use, there is a reason why Bury Interchange was built.
     
    YorkyLad, mgl, Sunnieboy and 2 others like this.
  11. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    568
    Location:
    Fife
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'd imagine going through a couple of council areas, Network Rail, Northern Rail amongst other organisation would put a lot of rocks in a lot of ways. Rossendale have lot their entire marbles when Bury to the centre of Manchester is already nearly 40 minutes on the tram and god knows how long and how much money it would take to get from Rawtenstall to Manchester in a reasonable time.
     
  12. alexl102

    alexl102 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2019
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    132
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Ahhhh great! I knew it was under overhaul but hadn't seen if it was back in steam yet and obviously it's only a month away!
     
  13. Vulcan Works

    Vulcan Works Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    626
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If (a big if) a scheme is progressed it is likely to be managed by Transport for Greater Manchester and not led by an individual local authority. If the strategic business case stacks up (or it is made to stack up) it is quite possible that some sort of scheme will go ahead ‘for the greater good’. TfGM has access to funding and key political figures to make things happen (although it is quite busy at the moment trying to take control of the Greater Manchester bus network).

    None of the issues are insurmountable, it just depends how much cash is thrown at them! Level crossings and signalling systems can be modernised, cctv and security provided at stations, town centre buildings can be flattened and park and rides created etc etc. Balancing the best heritage aspects with modern transport requirements will be tricky, I agree that the line speed would need to be increased to attract commuter traffic from Rawtenstall, which could become a transport hub for the area.

    If I was the ELR I’d be wanting to be positively involved in shaping the outcome, rather than having a solution imposed by Others.
     
    3ABescot likes this.
  14. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,009
    Likes Received:
    5,480
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Train Maintainer for GTR at Hornsey
    Location:
    Letchworth
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    In which case the light railway order would no longer be valid, and all locos would need TPWS and possibly OTMR, door locking on the stock, toilet waste retention tanks, etc. You can either have a heritage railway with slow speed commuter services, or a normal railway with basically mainline services like NYMR do to Whitby, and the massively increased costs and fares to pay for it.
     
    ghost, Jamessquared, Paul42 and 2 others like this.
  15. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,147
    Likes Received:
    8,577
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    TPWS is a legal requirement if any passenger trains run at more than 40 kmph and there is no power of exemption. This doesn't only apply to those trains but to any train running on that railway. Thus, any visiting loco would have to have TPWS fitted. AWS, GSMR and OTMR are not legal requirements and, on Network Rail, they have the ability to issue a derrogation from them. This is the case on the Esk Valley where NYMR operated locos do not have to have OTMR although derrogations from AWS and GSMR have not been given.
    And that's just for locos. We haven't even considered rolling stock.
     
    Matt37401, 5944 and Jamessquared like this.
  16. 2J66

    2J66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    203
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Argyll
    50(!) years ago just before the line closed the 10:05 from Rawtentall would get you into Bury Bolton Street for 10:22 in good time for the 10:30 leccy to Manchester Victoria, arrive 10:53. I can’t imagine any of the options likely to be considered would come anywhere near that. Progress, eh? :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
    MellishR and 26D_M like this.
  17. 46223

    46223 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    6,000
    Likes Received:
    4,873
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lancs
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Maybe it's best to just leave it as it is. Irwell Vale today.

    n.jpg
     
  18. 3855

    3855 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    388
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    inside a boiler
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Nice to see a different take on the Irwell Vale shot..... shame about the engine......!!!!!
     
  19. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    12,666
    Likes Received:
    8,536
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I agree that everything I’ve mentioned isn't insurmountable but there’s not exactly a blank cheque or everything in position to make it happen overnight is there?
    I genuinely wonder which person in charge would think this one to be the vote winner to close down of a popular tourist attraction to accommodate this?
     
    5944 and YorkyLad like this.
  20. Vulcan Works

    Vulcan Works Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    626
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I agree, on paper it’s an attractive solution to improve commuting links but I do think TfGM might prefer to spend taxpayers cash on other priorities e.g. Metrolink extensions to Wythenshaw and Stockport. Having had another think, the ELR is partly in Rossendale Borough which is in Lancs, and partly in Bury Borough which is in TfGM’s area (and a major tourist draw for Bury), so maybe it isn’t as cut and dried about TfGM being the project sponsor!

    It is difficult to square the circle about the line speed; possibly a subsidised daily commuter service could be intertwined with ELR services with diesel or battery DMUs with a change at Bury, or on an extended line eastwards to Castletown but is a sedate trundle really going to tempt folks out of their cars? If you make the service attractive by increasing the line speed, and maybe run battery tram trains to and from Manchester, it opens up an expensive can of worms as others have pointed out.

    I really like visiting the ELR, it has a lot going for it. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
     

Share This Page