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Current and Proposed New-Builds

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by aron33, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I must admit, I approach new builds from a somewhat "experimental archaeology" school of thought, i.e. a significant benefit is to help understand what the originals were like. At which point, I begin to wonder what the point is of taking an old design, and then trying to modify it significantly to improve the breed. Ultimately, you end up with a loco that is no longer representative of what it claims to be, but still won't be as a capable as designs made 25 years later with a clean sheet of paper.

    If you want a locomotive of basically historic design, but nonetheless capable of meeting the most exacting schedules steam is likely to be allowed to run, then the Peppercorn A1 meets that brief. If there is enthusiast desire for a Raven A2, then go ahead and build one - but don't try to make it into something that it is self evidently not. To do otherwise is like putting a Griffon engine in a Spitfire Mark 1 airframe - you end up with something that won't be as fast and durable as a genuine late mark Griffon Spitfire, but won't be representative of a Spitfire Mark 1 either.

    Tom
     
  2. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    RCTS "Locomotives Of The LNER" vol 2A has a brief summary. From memory: both classes could handle the loads and timings affected, but the A1 did not steam as well and was unable to get its boiler up to full pressure.
     
  3. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    I think quite a number of new build locomotives have "improvements" from the original design. There was little support for the one example (the 5AT) which was intended to be designed on, more or less, a clean sheet of paper.
     
  4. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    The test of CME capabilty could be found in the tests of the LNER B16,designed by Raven,some modified by Gresley and some by Thompson and all working almost to the end of steam.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  5. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It does depend on what one is trying to achieve. The P2 will certainly not be a re-creation of the original, with all its virtues and faults, but an improved version, looking the part but better suited to earn part of its living by pulling trains on today's (or should I say tomorrow's) railway.

    Perhaps I should have asked what an improved, higher boiler pressure, internally streamlined, etc Raven Pacific might have been like, if that design had continued to be developed to the end of the LNER era.
     
  6. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Apologies if this has been suggested before but: Moel Tryfan and Snowdon Ranger. (if you are going to new build one you might as well new build both)

    They are historically important, (first 0-6-4's in the UK I believe). Fill a gap. I would not say that they are righting a historical wrong because the scrapping of Moel Tryfan in 1954-55 was probably justified at the time. They'd also be useable locos on the modern FR and WHR. (Would be happy with MT in either original or rebuilt form)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    Picture of the Saint in this month’s Steam Railway looking very complete now, and in black undercoat. Not long now hopefully.
     
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  8. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    Nice looking locos in their original form, but the way the cab was butchered by just cutting across the side window looks awful, the sort of mutilation sometimes seen on industrial locos. However they would need cutting down to fit of the FR (though perhaps not so drastically as when it had to fit the old Moelwyn tunnel) and are too small for the full length WHR. But agree would be great to see if a niche could be found for one; Beddgelert shuttle? Occasional hire to L&B?
     
  9. 2392

    2392 Well-Known Member

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    Thing is, if both loco's were built. One could have the "as built" and the other "modified" cab........
     
  10. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    I was having trouble justifying even one! Were you thinking they could run as a pair on the Welsh Highland?

    At which point brain wanders off to a fantasy world....... an 0-6-6-0 super Fairlie inspired by the old NWNGR pair.
     
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  11. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

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  12. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Thanks for the link; but I am underwhelmed by that website, so I have emailed Peter Kenyon.
     
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  13. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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  14. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    RLinkinS and 240P15 like this.
  15. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

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  16. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

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  17. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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  18. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    Seems to require a Facebook account to view.
     
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  19. D6332found

    D6332found Member

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    Perhaps a B16 is the biggest missing link that made it to the 1960s. Seems the Darlo financiers are purely interested in Gresley. Hardly a criticism!
    Asfor The Northumbrian, did it run over an MP. There's a real mystery over the replica picture. What happened to it. Also disappearing there(I think it was Chicago expo 1927 or 1935 was the Pendarryn replica, "with original tender wheels and backplate..." North Star came home, with a big 4-6-0 of the GWR, but if that backplate could be found!
     
  20. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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