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CME 20/08/16

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by sheffield83, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    Thanks Danny , wet and windy but all normal on a summer day in Cumbria .
     
  2. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Max load for Carnforth-Carlisle for a Class 7 under the new rules is 10, but there's always the relevant historic performance and crew competence and familiarity with traction and route provisos. When granted I guess it's at the TOC's risk. If you put Information about significant gradients Network Rail into your search engine it should find the file. It's an clunky Excel Spreadsheet. Hopefully the Guidelines are attached below as a pdf
     

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  3. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I like the reference to the load including the POB and any 'diesel loco dead in consist'. Can't think of when I ever experienced a diesel on the back that was 'dead' other than with DBC.
     
  4. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    46233 took 13 and a dead 47 over Shap a few years back doing 40 something at the summit I believe .
     
  5. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    The Cumbrian Mountain Express 20 August 2016 – 46115 Scots Guardsman hauling 10+POB

    The train was diesel hauled into Preston and by the time I arrived, shortly before 9.30, Scots Guardsman was attached to the front and the diesel was nowhere to be seen; a pleasant surprise considering the “new load regulations” (where 10 appears to be a Scot’s max load on the down line over Shap) and the weather forecast (no! not a fire risk! that is unless rain burns). Mrs W’s planned return to mainline action has again been postponed (to September), so I was travelling alone. I was in coach F (4½ coach lengths from the very noisy end). Driver: S Chipperfield, Fireman: C Holmes, TI: C McDonald same crew for both legs of the journey (info supplied from the Train Manager’s documentation).

    We were 5½L away from Preston having again been held for the late running “Tesco Train”. Once clear of the station Steve Chipperfield set 46115 to work, by Barton loop (4¼ miles) we were travelling at 62 and 7½ miles after leaving Preston we reached our max speed for this section of 78. Speed continued in the mid 70s and with a good long blast on the whistle we shot through Lancaster at 70, now only 3½L. The usual slow approach into Carnforth loop kept us 3½L.

    Watered and ready for our scheduled departure time, we were held for the late running TP service from Manchester Airport to Edinburgh (this seems to be a regular event). A shade under 6L we were away. I don’t know if it was the late start or that the fire that had been well-sorted on the way up from Preston or for another reason but the usual cautious start was ignored as 46115 topped Yealand bank (2+ miles 1/134r) at 40. By Milnthorpe we were up to a shade under 70, despite the vigorous start we were 6½L. Oxenholme was passed at 57 (4¾L), the good work continued and we topped Grayrigg at 38.

    Speed was built up ready for our tilt at Shap, shortly before Tebay we reached our max of 75 and we shot past Tebay at 73.5. There was a continuous roar from the front and the brave souls at Scout Green were passed at 51. As we entered the cutting on the last mile or so towards the summit the sound of the exhaust was deafening. The minimum on the climb was 34.3 and the summit was passed at 35.5 (4L). From the start at Carnforth to passing the summit board (in coach F) took 38m 39s. There was some fast running on the descent (low to mid 70s) and by Penrith we were RT, the good running continued and we were 3E into Carlisle. There had been a few showers and it was windy; but the weather was to change for the worse.

    I took a gentle stroll down to the Woodrow Wilson for lunch in dry weather, then a brisk walk back in blustery rain. The quick turnaround at Carlisle was a welcome bonus with the weather rapidly deteriorating.

    We departed 2L. This part of the journey is more about scenery than locomotive performance, however by the time we reached scenic bit the weather had so deteriorated that you couldn’t see it. There were spectacular bits; the stormy sea at St Bees Head, St Bees school glowering like something out of a horror movie but there were parts where everything was a uniform grey and it was impossible to determine where the sea ended and the clouds began.

    A first for me was travelling through Barrow in Furness behind steam as all my previous journeys have used the avoiding line. The climb of Lindal bank was subdued (24mph) – signals, speed restriction, rail conditions? There was plenty of water running under the Leven viaduct and again with the viaduct at Arnside, all the low lying land alongside the railway was flooded. We were looking good for a RT return to Carnforth D&UGL, but were held for almost 8m at Carnforth F&M Jn whilst a late running Lancaster to Barrow cleared platform 2 at Carnforth. We were held again in the platform before we could access the loop (10L).

    An hour seems a long time to wait whilst the steam was unhooked and 2 diesels (47237 & 47760) were attached. To keep us amused WCRC propelled the ECS for Sunday’s Waverley onto the adjacent line then, a few minutes later, it departed on its way to Hellifield. 3L we left and as we neared Garstang the sun began to break through the clouds – typical!

    Thanks to everyone involved in organising and running the trip, it was very enjoyable and the timekeeping was exemplary. Thanks to my fellow travellers who provided some interesting and informative conversation, mainly but not exclusively about railway matters. To all you regular moaners about the lack of pure steam (Mrs W has noted your names), let’s see what you could’ve done,

    46115 + 11 + Shap – diesel = a very good day out​
     
  6. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Thanks for the usual entertaining and informative report. Good to see Guardsman running so well. Decent climb and good to see proper steam over Shap. Bet if we'd been booked on it it wouldn't have been ....
     
  7. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Thanks for the photos and vids taken in appalling weather, it's the thing that you miss when travelling on these trips. I'm convinced SGT must have been roped to the hillside.
     
  8. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    She did and I was on board, a stunning performance as well.
     
  9. mouse

    mouse New Member

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    An excellent summary. I was on the train in coach H, just 3 from the front, and the exhaust was tremendous at times.

    The running between Preston and Carlisle with this load was as good as any Class 8 (better than some I have been on), Steve Chipperfield producing a text book run aided proficiently by Fireman Holmes. (Steve did say to me that the coal quality was somewhat variable). I made Carnforth to Carlisle in 66 mins 30 secs - excellent for the 63 miles from a standing start.

    Well done - it shows what can be done and is a refreshing change from recent tales of woe in the South.

    John
     
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  10. Dobbs0054

    Dobbs0054 Member

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    As ever an entertaining and informative account. Thank you.

    We stress on here about steam causing delays on the mainline and the need for assistance (thankfully not on this tour) but reading the report, what stands out are the delays caused by freight and scheduled services. Perhaps we worry too much about steam and late running?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
  11. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Class 8s have been a rarity over Shap in recent years and we all know 46233 is pretty much wrapped in cotton wool these days. Apart from No9 a few years ago - and most of those runs were really good with 12 - what are you basing your post on??
     
  12. Mick45305

    Mick45305 New Member

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    It was a very good day out, the Scot was dismissing the gradients all day. There were some memorable sounds from up front as she accelerated up to 78mph from leaving Preston to passing Brock, and the beginning of Grayrigg was taken with gusto.
     
  13. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

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    Read one or two comments on NP suggesting 46233 is under restrictions these days. Has there been a statement or suchlike from the owners? Missed it if so.
     
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  14. Fulwood Flyer

    Fulwood Flyer New Member

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  15. Fulwood Flyer

    Fulwood Flyer New Member

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    A very interesting account of your trip: thank you. With 46115 leaving Carnforth 5 minutes late and arriving at Carlisle 3 minutes early with 11 on and no diesel, I would suggest that the capability of 46115 and her crew speak for themselves, especially given the less than favourable conditions on Shap yesterday. Pic attached.
     

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  16. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    If it had fallen off there the video would have been wonderful evidence.
     
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  17. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    6234 took 20 over Shap at 30mph on 26 February 1937. Would this count as "historical precedent"? It's certainly historical enough!:)
     
  18. Shed9C

    Shed9C New Member

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    :confused:
     
  19. John Stewart

    John Stewart Part of the furniture

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    Rather like the incident a couple of years back near Ordsall Lane where NR track caused a WCRC 47 to take a dive into the ballast. I certainly didn't like the rolling of locomotive and stock at Bootle. Looking at the vegetation, I was wondering if the roots were pushing up the track.;)
     
  20. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    2009 IIRC. A magnificent run indeed.
     

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