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Class 91/Mk4/225 preservation?

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by Phill S, Oct 2, 2016.

  1. Phill S

    Phill S New Member

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    Morning all,

    At risk of provoking a mass of frothing...

    Having just joined the HST group, seen the Class 41 prototype in action, and seen GWRs repainted power cars, it seems the HST might have a reasonably secure future preservation wise.

    Is there anything being considered for the 91/Mk4 sets? Obviously not half as useful to a preserved line as a diesel set, but the AC loco group have shown that 25Kv can be preserved and ran mainline. I get the impression that the 91 sets could start being phased out in the medium future. Are there any viable looking groups yet?

    (As a side note...how about a full HST and 225 set in Intercity Swallow livery...wibble dribble etc)
     
  2. SR.Keoghoe

    SR.Keoghoe New Member

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    Maybe one could be preserved if someone was willing for one but would joe public ride on one? it isn't exactly heritage, but that is my opinion. maybe you could just have the class 91 on display to represent it.

    Sorry if this bursts your bubble, I also think this is a list of requirements somewhere on nat pres, to see if it is worth preserving something that is not steam or diesel and the likelihood of success.
     
  3. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    I think a full HST is worthy of preserving and I think the public will be fond enough of these trains to want experience one again once they are gone. Hopefully rather just buying a complete set, a selection of vehicles can be put together from the different operators thus showing the different styles of refurbishment they have gone through.

    The 91s and Mk4s on the other hand are a bit of a dead end. I Expect a 91 to be saved and stuffed somewhere. If rakes of the Mk4s survive I expect it will be in the charter market.

    Sawdust.
     
  4. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Electrics in general are as useful as chocolate teapots for preserved lines currently, for mainline use, one of the demic DBS 90's or waiting until Freightliner eventually bin their remaining 86's would give a more useful loco.
     
  5. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    expecting an entire train to be preserved, what ever it might be , is a non-starter.
     
  6. Captain Fantastic

    Captain Fantastic Member

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    pretty sure 91131 has been claimed by the NRM already so thats safe, you MAY see the AC guys pick up another one but the full rake of 4's now that may be a bit more of wish list, as Mr sawdust say's the 4's may well be the charter stock of the future, the MK1's really cannot be expected to be allowed out for that much longer, if you have a look at the carnforth's rake's they are very shabby, it wasnt that long ago when a full window FRAME fell out with the glass on the WHL, and then you have the CDL and the flush on to the track toilets and the cards really are stacking up against them, however try putting a chuffer on a full air con rake with NO chance of a bit of window hanging out and see the bookings tumble, MK4's are very quiet inside and that isn't what some of the punters want. let alone the seat layout and the kitchen cars, i dont know if they could cope with the demand of a normal dining section of a tour AND the buffet section as well, you could have two buffets but then that cuts down on seats to sell, could be a tricky one this
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  7. Phill S

    Phill S New Member

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    Oh, I should have said I'd assume a shortened rake of Mk4s+DVT, maybe 3-4 at most. Then finally the hornby trainset of the 90's would be accurate!

    True, they'd be limited appeal compared to kettles, just like all diesel/electric stuff. But in terms of history, pretty much the last British designed and built stuff, the last done for BR, and around 30 years old already. I reckon if they can last another ten years, there'd be more interest. Especially since modern stock is getting progressively more cramped, people might well marvel at the luxury, just as people in the 80's enjoyed the comparative luxury of some 20s/30s coaches.

    It was more idle curiosity. I certainly hope something gets kept.
     
  8. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres

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    I would think that that would be under consideration by the AC Locomotive Group - subject to funding; as the ACLG already has experience of preserving AC Traction I would suggest discussing with them to avoid the chance of duplicating effort.
     
  9. Phill S

    Phill S New Member

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    Fred-I've no intention at all of starting a group, I'm fully aware that I've neither the time, resource or ability. Was more wondering if there was something already going and worth joining.
     
  10. Even if it has been claimed by the Railway Heritage Committee (or whatever its called), the NRM has chosen to dispose of a number of its assets to other groups. I think it's fair to say that there are only certain exhibits in the NRM that could truly be considered to be 'safe', if that means in terms of a guaranteed place under the roof at York or Shildon.
     
  11. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    there is no precedent for preserving a full train inc loco (except maybe on the narrow gauge.) I can't see it being feasible
     
  12. Coldgunner

    Coldgunner New Member

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    I was under the understanding that 91111 was earmarked for official preservation following the application of the livery, and 91110 was picked up with another group with 91101 also in the running. This is all platform hearsay and I have nothing to back this information up, so duly take with the proverbial pinch of salt.

    Then there's been the off/on rumour of them being re-allocated to freight working.

    On a personal note, I really hope 91110 is preserved as the livery is fantastic, as well as being a record breaker.

    The 91's are just ordinary loco's after all, so where there's string up, they can probably run and tow anything air braked.
     
  13. Phill S

    Phill S New Member

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    Ta again for the responses, I'll have to keep my eyes peeled and wallet ready for any schemes that may appear then! Of course, I understand that they'd be subject to the usual woes that preserved electric things face, with additional electronic complexity/obsolescence thrown in. However, as one of the last gasps of BR design, it would be nice to see at least a 91, DVT and 2 or 3 Mk4s kept hold of.
     
  14. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Wouldn't the NRM have one 'missing' from the set though, think about it everything from Stirling No1 through to A4's steam wise, then with the Diesels they have a Deltic, 47 and a 40. The only East coast power missing from the NRM is arguably a production HST power car.
     
  15. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    One of those is/was supposed to be claimed for the NRM (rightly so)
     
  16. Captain Fantastic

    Captain Fantastic Member

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    Well with the current situation with 47/58/86/87/92's all in europe doing whatever i dont think it would be out of the question to say that some/all MAY go abroad after they have been replaced on the ECML
     
  17. M59137

    M59137 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the suggestion that has already been made further up the thread: that I would think a set or two of Mk4's, perhaps with certain modifications, would be suitable as charter sets of the future. With all the uncertainty regarding slam doors etc, plus the A1 Steam announcement regarding a Mk3 charter set, it is worth considering that in 20 years time modified Mk3's and Mk4's may form the only BR era hauled coaching rakes in regular charter use behind preserved steam/heritage diesel.

    Sent from my HTC Desire 620 using Tapatalk
     
  18. Luke McMahon

    Luke McMahon Member

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    A 91 on mk1/mk3 stock would be appealing to the bashers.

    Who knows what's happen.............
     
  19. Captain Fantastic

    Captain Fantastic Member

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    i had 9100X on MK1's up to Leeds on a charter once when they were new, it was okay but as with all electrics i cant say it shook my world
     
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  20. SilentHunter86

    SilentHunter86 Member

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    A 125mph capable heritage set certainly makes things easier for the Network Rail planners when it comes to fitting the railtours in.
     

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