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BR Standard class 6 No. 72010 'Hengist' and Clan Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Bulleid Pacific, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. Hermod

    Hermod Member

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    Another indication that powerfull ,two cylinder, part balanced, simple engines going fast, was not the real solution.
     
  2. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not sure Daniel Gooch would've agreed with that! ;)
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
  3. bristolian

    bristolian Member

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    This makes fascinating reading :). Are the LSSC Meeting minutes available online?.
     
  4. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

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  5. bristolian

    bristolian Member

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  6. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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  7. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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  8. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

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    One of the challenges for the driving wheel axleboxes is that the Timken taper roller bearings are not available "off the shelf" and will need to be specially manufactured - I understand that 71000 has had to do this. "Off the shelf" is a bit misleading - although we established yesterday that the pony truck bearings are available "off the shelf", there's still a 5 month lead time!

    After a lot of research we have decided to go for oil lubrication. It is quite clear from BR Meeting minutes in the late 1950s that the change from oil to grease was a cost saving measure to save fitter's time. Another little gem that came from the meeting minutes to support this decision was concerned with the amount of leakage. In one of the minutes, they state that fitters were having difficulty removing the driving wheel axlebox pin that secures the suspension spring to the axlebox and sits directly below it. Plain bearing axleboxes leaked oil over the pin. In contrast, roller bearing axleboxes did not leak so the pins corroded and couldn't be removed. The pins were modified to provide a grease nipple and grease way so that they could be lubricated.
     
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  9. 8126

    8126 Member

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    I'm slightly curious about this. What is the advantage gained by reverting to oil lubrication of the rollers? I seem to remember that 60163 has grease lubricated bearings where an original roller bearing A1 would have used oil.
     
  10. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Perhaps the fact that 60163 as split cannons has a bearing ( see what i did there)
     
  11. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    AFAIK the A1 Trust switched from oil to grease after finding water corrosion in the bearings after a few years running. The mechanism for this was believed to be the oil expanding with temperature, then on cooling drawing damp air into the boxes where it condensed. Using grease and filling until overflowing from the breathers appears to have prevented any reoccurrence. (E&OE!)


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  12. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

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    Well you start with the position that these axleboxes were designed for oil lubrication. The Locomotive Standards Sub Committee meeting minutes clearly show that the primary reason for changing from oil to grease was to save fitters time - at a time when there were skilled staff shortages. The Chairman of the meeting said in September 1958 - "Mr Cox said that it had been agreed to use grease for future designs but that it was left to the regions to decide whether grease can be used for existing boxes. He thought himself that it was absurd to apply grease to cannon boxes which would have to be stuffed full." The BR drawings show that when you change from oil to grease you have to seal off the breathers. We understand that grease lubrication involves pumping grease into the cannon boxes until surplus grease emerges at the axle ends. Once you start running after servicing, excess grease continues to emerge.

    With oil, you can remove it and you can sample it. There's a special drain plug for the Timken axleboxes designed so that you can extract a sample.
     
  13. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

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  14. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    Latest news shows a vastly different frame assembly since the last one I saw, lots of finished 'rivet heads' holding bit together.Very nice to see lads.
    Great work from both Monday gang, contractors and the in-house workforce, brilliant!

    Mind you, fancy using a drill and chamfer bit to do the holes, in my day it was hand scrapers!!

    Check out the link
    https://www.theclanproject.org/Clan_News.php
     
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  15. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

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    For the eagle eyed amongst you, the front horizontal stretcher still needs riveting (the holes to the right of my head!) as we missed that off the list we asked Varley Boilers to quote for.

    On the frame/frame extension joint, hopefully we will have measured the last 6 bolt holes today and we should get an order in this week.

    On the bogie, things are coming together finally. As you can see, we are getting the frame parts ready for a trial assembly. All of the internal components for the axle cannon boxes are in stock. One set is at the AMRC in Sheffield getting dimensionally checked by their advanced systems. We are aiming to take a photo for you of a complete set next week. The cannon boxes are scheduled to go for final machining tomorrow (Tuesday 26th). The wheels are having the oil release grooves machined this week and they should be finished by next Monday. We will need to paint the inside of the cannon boxes (with oil resistant paint) and get primer on the outside of most parts.

    We have a quotation from South Devon Railway Engineering Ltd for assembly of the wheelsets and we expect to place an order by the end of this month. The plan is to deliver all of the parts to Buckfastleigh at the beginning of September.

    We need to start design work on the pony truck - have a look at https://www.theclanproject.org/appeals/ponytruck/Clan_PonyTruckMain.php
     
  16. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

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    After 50 years I can still hand scrape...mostly related to machine tool fitting in which discipline I served my apprenticeship. I still have some unused Sheffield made forged hand scrapers. The Sandvik tungsten carbide tipped one's are superb though nowadays. I scrape steel with old HSS machine hacksaw blades suitably modified. A blast from the past I suppose. I don't know if scraping is still passed on/taught these days?
     
  17. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

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    And if it's not, could you pass it on?
    (Not in a snide way, but if skills get lost when they aren't used. Even if you consider yourself not the best scraper, every little sharing helds)
     
  18. ianh1

    ianh1 Member

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    We used a hand deburring tool on the frame holes but it was decided to use the drill as there was a lot of holes to tackle at one go!
     
  19. northernsteam

    northernsteam Member

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    We had to make our own out of redundant (smooth) files, bent and ground to suit, still have some of them to use at home.
     
  20. osprey

    osprey Resident of Nat Pres

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    Ah that would be for what we called "hole scrapers"..bearing scrapers. I have some of those too and as we had a heat treatment dept, there was no problem making them. Still have a large quantity of Sheffield made files. Brand new..I don't like using them..I know it's silly but that's me...
     
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