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Bluebell 2009 "Modernisation"

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by davycrocket, Dec 16, 2008.

  1. cct man

    cct man New Member

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    Ah but it,s the lies one is told Chris,when the wed states that the last one was a "one off" and then along comes another , it hardly endears us to beleive anything else that the board is telling us is it?. This stinks of "New Labour" double standards which is why I agee with Colunbine and Spamcan that the Bluebell has sold it,s soul for thirty pieces of silver.

    Still that my opinion.

    Chris W.
     
  2. tom92240

    tom92240 New Member

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    We were told a passenger train for paying passengers would be run, and it was, and there has not been one since. This was/is followed by 2 charters which were/are not made available to the public but to the owners + supporters of the GN saloon, and the owners of the 73 only on a reciprocal arrangement. The 1st one, (last Sunday) was only seen by those leaving the railway after the 4.29 arrival and was mostly crowded in passengers and staff taking photos of it. The 2nd one is for the owners of the locomotive, not too much to ask for, after all, it is their engine! After this, she will leave for Eastleigh within a matter of days.
     
  3. poser500

    poser500 New Member

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    The charter with the ED and the GN saloon was for I think the ED guys, who have in the past been heavily involved in the railway, via the GN saloon, C&W and P Way to name a few, (also for destroying a shovel via a firebox once =P~ )
    I for one don't begrudge them taking their plant for a day out and see it as a thank you from the Railway for their help in the process of getting us to EG.
    The same arguments for both sides keep getting repeated and now it's time to just get on with getting the money to get to EG. Then with our 100% steam service we can enjoy that final 1 and a bit miles of 1in 75.

    Regards,

    Dave G.

    Now awaiting the "enjoy your steam while it lasts" responses. Well actually I will and I think I will for a very long time.
     
  4. beetlejuice

    beetlejuice New Member

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    That is the funniest comment I have ever seen. I somehow doubt you've met him, but I think he will enjoy the comment.
     
  5. tom92240

    tom92240 New Member

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    Dear Columbine,

    I do not believe we have ever met, or at least your screen name is not one I have come across before therefore I am a little confused, and slightly vexed: How can you tell I have a threatening and possibly bullying demeanor just from the fact I have guarded some train that happen to have been diesel hauled? Surely not an assumption based on being rostered to guard TWO diesel hauled trains, and that the "diesel freaks" are apparently horrible people?

    Also, I am willing to let you spend the day with me if I am rostered on duty as a guard for you to maybe do a customer service report on my manner should you so wish?

    'Tom'
     
  6. cct man

    cct man New Member

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    I hear what you say Tom, although it would be nice to have been told this. I think what is upsetting some people is that we are told one thing then something else happens,a communication problem here I think.

    Regards
    Chris W
     
  7. tom92240

    tom92240 New Member

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    Maybe communication issues might be on the way to being resolved with a hoped shake up at the next AGM!
     
  8. Columbine

    Columbine New Member

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    My unreserved apology. But I do think that you should have a word to 'Minky' about mis-representing you.

    Best Wishes
     
  9. stepney60

    stepney60 New Member

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    You find that offensive, do you? I'm sorry if you feel it was, and it does strike me as rich given your attempted character assassination of Tom, for which you have apologised and I shall dwell no further on.

    Because, as we all know, the Severn Valley, North Yorkshire Moors, East Lancashire, Great Central, West Somerset, Mid-Hants etc etc railways all suffer hugely from terribly low incomes, some of them have visitor numbers which dip almost as low as the Bluebell experiences. There has been no indication that the Bluebell will bring in any more diesel locomotives at any point in the future beyond the hire of the 73 and the 08. Perhaps these other members would like to say where they would take their money, given that they won't spend it on railways which have diesels. Maybe they'll club together and start their own railway somewhere, to live out their idealistic dreams.

    I'm hugely interested, and almost amused, by your comment of "foolish". "Foolish", to my mind, involves spending valuable money steaming a small tank engine to run up to Horsted Keynes and do some shunting, wih no revenue coming in for it but expenditure on coal, wear, maintainence etc, when it is far easier, quicker and cheaper to have a shunter of class 08 (or similar) to do the job.

    Similarly, people who believe that diesels being around irrevocably damages a railway must also realise that they are in a minority. While many people may agree diesels on publically hauled trains aren't ideal (personally I'm none to fussed), I think you'll find the majority will see the benefits of having one or two around to cover in an emergency and do routine work such as shunting without having the expenditure and time of steaming a kettle for the job.

    Interestingly, a little snippet for you. I visited the RHDR last summer with my young cousin and several members of our family, and we found that, on a summer saturday, we found it easier to get a seat on the train hauled by a steamer (IIRC it was Typhoon, but that's irrelevant) than it was on the train hauled by Capt. Howey, one of the diesels. Obviously that's an isolated case, but it does show that the general public generally don't care about the presence of diesel engines on a line. No-one to my mind is suggesting we get rid of the steam engines and run an all-diesel service, as you seem to believe they are, so it's a pointless argument.

    "Public" charter. Obviously you missed that bit.

    "Diesel freaks", QED everyone who happens to like diesels is a freak. Guess what, some of the more vehement anti-steam brigade think of us as "steam freaks", and both extremes are ridiculous in their beliefs as to be almost comedic, if it wasn't tinged with pity that they actually do believe their spiel. It would seem the only person here lying and bullying people is your good self, Mr "Columbine".
     
  10. cct man

    cct man New Member

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    A bit tetchy and bloody minded this afternnon arn,t we Chris? Just because someone disagrees with you , it,s not to say that they are wrong?

    You need to get out more young man.

    Regards
    Chris
     
  11. stepney60

    stepney60 New Member

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    It's called debate, Chris. It's kind of the point of online forums, and without them they'd be pretty dull. If you read it back, there is nothing tetchy whatsoever, I'm merely outlining the frailties of someone elses argument while making my own, which is the general manner of structured debate. If you don't like it, then don't bother reading it.
     
  12. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I may be wrong here but I feel the board rely too much on the printed word and with Blue News being a quarterly publication there are long gaps between announcements and in the meantime rumour and possibly ill founded debate rages over the internet. I think more use should be made of the internet in communicating with members and if that means some will be late getting the news due do inability or unwillingness to access the web then so be it.
     
  13. cct man

    cct man New Member

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    I didn,t say I did not like it, and it was worth reading. It,s just a shame it had a lot of agressiveness in it which to my mind was unnescessary.

    There there,s a new one, me being diplomaticI must be getting old, thats worth a debate on it,s own.

    Don,t worry be happy.

    Chris Willis.
     
  14. stepney60

    stepney60 New Member

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    I didn,t say I did not like it, and it was worth reading. It,s just a shame it had a lot of agressiveness in it which to my mind was unnescessary.

    There there,s a new one, me being diplomaticI must be getting old, thats worth a debate on it,s own.

    Don,t worry be happy.

    Chris Willis.[/quote:gi15nvdi]

    I'll be honest, I never had you down as a model of diplomacy... ;-)

    No, I see your point, I apologise if I was a little blunt, but I guess we all are when we feel strongly about something. And let's face it, if we all agreed all the time, this forum wouldn't half be dull.
     
  15. 73129

    73129 Member

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    Maybe a diesel group could take over the Ardingly line and run trains in to Horsted Keynes. Then customers could make a choice of which traction they want to ride behind. This could be one way the Bluebell could have the best of both worlds.
     
  16. Dan Hamblin

    Dan Hamblin New Member

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    To be honest I think the Ardingly debate should wait until the East Grinstead extension is completed. Otherwise it will dilute the effort to get the extension completed.

    As for the diesel debate - the loco has obviously done a good job hauling the spoil trains, at a time when the steam loco fleet is low in terms of numbers. The owning group already has links to the GNR saloon based on the railway so really it worked quite well. I admit that I was saddened to see a passenger train run with the 73, but if it brought people to the railway and helped pay for the fuel to run it then it was a small price to pay. Also it seems very reasonable that they should run a private charter or two to round off the visit as it were, especially so if they are pairing it with the GNR saloon.

    As for Chris's comments about using a steam loco for shunting - I always used to enjoy sitting at Horsted Keynes between trains and watching / listening to Normandy as it carried out that days shunting. I would hope that it can be revived when the railway is on a more sound financial footing i.e. extension paid for and fully operational. Perhaps we could use it for advanced driver experience courses in the future to help pay its way, who knows.

    Regards,

    Dan
     
  17. stepney60

    stepney60 New Member

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    There was that, but the question is did it bring in any more money than a normal mid-week day would? Maybe when we have weekly running, especially in the high summer, the steam shunt would be more of a tourist attraction, however on the days when we have no mid-week services, with very few people around, it would perhaps be a better idea to use the diesel simply on an economic grounding.

    Maybe the line could even plug these events as special events to encourage people to come down and have a look? Just listed in the timetable as steam shunt day or something. Might give something like Fenchurch, or the P when finished, something to do when the trains are generally in the hands of the larger engines, while keeping them out of use when they operate trains over the winter.
     
  18. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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    I really cant see how a diesel which isn't used on public services, isnt advertised in leaflets or timetables, is kept inside when not in use and will shortly be going to Eastleigh, has even a remote chance of damaging passenger revenues - its just rediculous. The Bluebell IS all-steam in the eyes of the public, because if you turn up you will never be hauled by a diesel and that is what counts.

    If members want to argue about whether there should be diesels on the line at all then fine - but dont start talking nonsense like its the end of the world for the railway without a decent argument, because it doesnt help their cause.

    All this seems to be is a question of ideology, and in my view commercial viability in a recession trumps ideology every time when the only negative is annoying a handfull of die-hard preservationists. Of course using diesels on public trains is a different issue, and i think it makes sound commercial sense to keep it all steam... and unless someone knows differently that is exactly how the Bluebell is going to stay.

    Chris
     
  19. David

    David New Member

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    I guess then from now on if we are going to use the 08 in the Monday shunts etc should Normandy and Baxter be overhauled? These 2 locomotives are just not powerful enough to haul regular passenger services but their forte was the shunting duties. Should thousands of pounds be spent on overhauling them if their not going to be used on Monday shunts etc. and they would rarely be required on passenger trains.
     
  20. stepney60

    stepney60 New Member

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    I guess that assuming they don't cost too much, they would both find use doing something. As I said, no reason why in high summer why we can't have a steam shunt, with an 08 in the winter. Plus something like 96 or Baxter could be loaned out to other lines at various interludes, which is more money in the coffers
     

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