If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Bagnall 4-4-0 Charles Wytock for sale

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Felix Holt, Oct 28, 2017.

  1. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    Meiriongwril likes this.
  2. weltrol

    weltrol Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,862
    Likes Received:
    207
    Penrhyn Quarry? Oh, I forgot... they need a railway as well.
     
  3. clam1952

    clam1952 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Crewe Cheshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    That updates the where is it now question then.
     
  4. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    416
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cymru
    According to the most recent L&B weekly update, it's still at Woody Bay, but a buyer is being sought.
     
  5. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,967
    Likes Received:
    1,745
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Taunton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Last I heard from a fireman on the L&B in the winter/spring it is OOU due to patches on the boiler/firebox been found which the inspector wasn't happy over and, unless if possible better repairs can be done a new boiler/firebox will have to be made which is beyond the owners means so this is the reason it is for sale. Will find out more when I see the fireman hopefully in the next few weeks.
     
  6. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    286
    Preston steam certainly do have an "interesting" collection pass through they're hands.
     
  7. Buzzard

    Buzzard New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2014
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Apparently the owner of the loco was willing, and able, to fund repairs or even a new boiler, and even got a quote for a welded replacement. Unfortunately he wasn't able to reach an agreement with the railway for a long term loan which would justify the expense. His fear is that, since the arrival of Lyn, Charles Wytock would only be steamed on rare occasions which wouldn't justify the cost of a new boiler, and once the boiler comes into use it will start to corrode. Hence his reluctant decision to sell. The loco has received extensive improvements including many new motion parts, steam and vacuum brakes, mechanical lubricator etc since arriving at the railway, and has been an impressive performer on both passenger and demonstration freight trains.It's a shame it won't be continuing at Woody Bay, as the railway will need several large locos for the Blackmoor extension.
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  8. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    416
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cymru
    The pearls of wisdom from the mysterious L&B fireman have oft turned out to be erroneous in the past, so let's take this with a pinch of salt!;)
     
    Felix Holt likes this.
  9. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    I guess the thinking is possibly that Lyn and Isaac can cope with the trains on the extension, with Pilton as the emergency rescue diesel.
    Also, with the time expected for the extension to open, there may well be, funding permitted, two MWs either ready or nearly so.
    In the meantime, on the current length of line, having 4 steam locos (Axe, Lyn, Isaac, and Charles W) is probably one too many and thus no guarantees could be given for more than occasional use.
    One wonders what the price is for CW, as there must be several nascent schemes that might be interested (e.g. Glyn Valley with a little re-gauging!).
     
    paullad1984 likes this.
  10. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,913
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The L & B Fireman's account of the state of CW is in accordance with an account I have heard from someone well placed to know. I see that at least one other of these engines is also being offered for sale - caveat emptor!
     
    Miff likes this.
  11. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    That's interesting - could you give us the website of where the other one is offered? It'd be interesting to see the price being asked.
     
  12. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,913
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I can't remember exactly but I've a feeling the owner posted on here earlier this year - not too long ago iirc but it's easy to lose track of time!
     
  13. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,277
    Likes Received:
    1,405
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
  14. Felix Holt

    Felix Holt Guest

    Thanks Keith -

    so, not actually for sale, then.
     
  15. ghost

    ghost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    2,277
    Likes Received:
    1,405
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    Well the owner does talk about a first refusal if his circumstances changed, so make him a good offer....

    On the other hand I believe 'A.Boulle' which can be seen in some of the photos on that thread is/was being offered for sale.


    Keith
     
  16. NGChrisW

    NGChrisW New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Surrey
    I also recall seeing it mentioned somewhere recently that he was looking to sell one (To fund restoration of a standard gauge loco or a traction engine?) and that the other loco was still available for hire. Might have been in Steam Railway or NG World magazines?
    I guess part of the issue may be that the locos sit somewhere in the middle of what might be termed ideal in terms of loco size for day to day operations. Too big for some lines and not big enough for others. The L&B was probably a good fit in that respect.
    I also vaguely recall that when Isibutu visited the South Tynedale there were issues with it's overall wheelbase objecting to some of the pointwork radii so that may also be a factor for some lines.

    Personally, they are a design I particularly like and would love to see the others running somewhere.

    Chris
     
  17. Meiriongwril

    Meiriongwril Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    416
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cymru
    I never understood the marine firebox issue with these locos. Can anyone explain how they differ from normal ones?
     
    paullad1984 likes this.
  18. meeee

    meeee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    345
    A marine firebox is basically a tube inside another tube, instead of a box in another box. The advantage is they are simpler to construct and require less space underneath. Downside is you have less heating surface and often a smaller ashpan. They typically take longer to warm up, however there are plenty of free steaming marine firebox locos out there. There are also plenty of poor steaming conventional firebox locos.

    Tim
     
    MattA, andrewshimmin and Bluenosejohn like this.
  19. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,237
    Likes Received:
    2,111
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Cumbria
    A marine firebox is a different shape to a conventional one and is essentially a circular inner firebox surrounded by another larger circular outer firebox. The issue with them is it's difficult to have a deep fire and has limited area for the "ash-pan", the arrangement is much cheaper as has limited number of stays compared to a conventional firebox. This arrangement is fine for locomotives used for shorter runs and shunting but becomes more challenging is you want to go further or indeed work harder (when a deeper fire is of use). Did not the Welshpool have some issues with its articulated loco with such a box?

    Picture on this page:-

    http://beamishtransportonline.co.uk/2014/08/ti-news-update-week-31/
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
    Bluenosejohn likes this.
  20. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,640
    Likes Received:
    3,570
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    AIUI The marine (or launch type) fìrebox is effectively a longtitudinal cylindrical section, lacking the section below a conventional loco's firebox grate. It is enclosed within the diameter of the rear ring of the boiler barrel. Lacking the complex geometry of the usual throatplate, it is far simpler (and cheaper) to manufacture. I'm not too well up on the finer points of the design, but I'd imagine staying of the design would be simplified too.

    The downside is inferior draughting of the fire and the ease with which combusted fuel can adversly attect performance.

    They were a favourite feature on Bagnall's smaller industrial locos, where the reduced production costs won many orders. Groudle Glen's "Sea Lion", "Polar Bear" and currently under construction newbuild "Brown Bear" are typical of the general layout of many locos from 2ft to 3ft 6in gauge (I'm not aware of any on wider gauges), if somewhat smaller than most. The less than well regarded ex-Bowaters 0-4-4-0t "Monarch" (the last NG steam loco built for service in the UK) has a marine firebox, explaining in part why it proved unsuccessful on the W&L (and why the design defies accurate classification in any accepted group of articulated loco).

    The image of 0-4-0st "Sir Tom" is from the Threkfold line th(3).jpg
    and 2-4-0t "Polar Bear"from Amberley Chalk Pits Museum

    polar_bear_@_brockham.jpg.cf.jpg
     
    Bluenosejohn likes this.

Share This Page