Discussion in 'Heritage Rolling Stock' started by WesternRegionHampshireman, Nov 7, 2021.
You're more than welcome Mr Walker. My sentiments are based on the same thoughts as H McQuade.
There has been no offence taken. We all have our personel preference as I have described in my previous post. Now if you were going to attack a certain design of coach. Can I aim the gun at Mk2s? God awful things. Even more unappealing than Mk1s in certain circles.
By all means, please do.
Well, now I have had time to think about, the title Anti-GWR was a bit misleading, the point was that I was frustrated that these heritage railways spend all this time, money and effort putting these enthusiast days on and all people do is complain constantly because something GWR has turned up, planned or last minute.
Besides, it turns out turns out I don't hate ALL MK1s.
I’m confused …
ghost quoted something from a different thread, all to do with enthusiast events, just thought I would clear it up a bit better. [See Anti-GWR for details].
Also, there is a special Mk1 that I truly love and its that beauty from Severn Valley, just love riding in those reclining seats.
3083 is more a Gresley in a MK1 ish frock.
Going back to the maintenance issues mentioned earlier, a common problem that will arise increasingly will be that of wheel tyres. The NYMR has found this with its Mk 1s, because they run relatively high mileages over heavy gradients - they have run out of spare wheelsets with good tyres and are now having to have wheelsets re-tyred, but at least one Gresley has had to be done too. It's a big issue when it happens, I think doing two bogies costs around £30K.
As I said, I wasn't being altogether serious....
I was also thinking much longer term, there is much talk of shortages of stock and with some forward thinking it could address this issue (if it even is an issue).
Computer problems have kept me away from this thread hitherto and I did feel some of the comments to be OTT. There is nothing to ''hate'' about the quasi universal Mk.1 but nothing to love either. However, imagine going to a motor museum only to find all the exhibits are Ford Populars. Most people would expect a bit more than that. Much the same with tourist railways rolling stock.:
Define "most people". When I see a rake of Mk.1 stock bursting with passengers during the high season, I do wonder if the heritage of said stock is of great concern to the passengers.
I'm sure they'd appreciate a ride in something a bit older but I doubt the age of the stock is the overriding reason why they take a ride or not.
Well, I have both talked to and overheard people who are very capable of recognising something different. Of course there are always those who don't but that is no excuse for ''samey'' trains.
An example comes to mind from the Bluebell. A not enormously busy day saw the default set of Mk 1s reinforced by the LNWR observation car. The latter was crammed whilst the rest of the train was nearly empty. I don't suppose many of those in the Obs were enthusiasts but they could identify something different.
And probably had to pay more for it as well! And if memory serves me correctly, not as comfortable as a Mk1!
A somewhat unfair comparison - the observation car (clue in the name...) is almost always more desirable than any generation of "normal" carriage. At the risk of rehashing many old debates, there was a supply of Mk1s in ready to run form at a time when railways were limited in the choices they had in order to be able to run at all.
61 years ago, the first two carriages used by a standard gauge mainline preservation railway were respectively 31 years old; and a 25 year old rebuild of a sixty year old coach. (And one of the first two locos in use was 50 years old). If age were the only consideration, in today's terms, that would be like using a class 73 to haul a mixed train consisting of a refurbished Mark 2 and class 159 trailer unit ...
We sometimes forget just how old Mark 1s are nowadays - generally 60 - 70 years old. The dividing line is increasingly not between "old" and "modern" carriages (rather - "old" and "very old"), but between those that have been well-maintained and sympathetically restored, and those that still bear all the hallmarks of withdrawal in tired state from BR
We've rehashed the same arguments again and again. And what has been said before is that whilst more railways have woken up to the fact that their coaching stock won't last forever without major overhauls and rebuilds (including Mk1s), and now have or are making provision for covered accommodation, much of it is far too late. Many items of stock are at risk of never having the rebuild that is necessary for their survival as their condition deteriorates.
The Bluebell has been mentioned - I remember that the first thing that they did once the purchase of the line had been completed was to build a carriage shed. It took them another 40 years to extend it - that's another story - but back in the 1960s and early 1970s they realised that the stock they had (like the Cheshams) would be lost if nothing was done. So the carriage shed was built - before the big loco shed and workshop, cafes, etc.
Priorities? - I understand it is difficult to juggle some things, but without investing in covered accommodation we may not have even the now old Mk1s for much longer.
It’s an Obbo so will automatically be popular irrespective of its age. I do believe the Festiniog's obbo is very popular and that’s a very modern vehicle.
Actually they were not charging the supplement that day. The Bluebell also has a Maunsell droplight third which is more comfortable and infinitely more stylish than a Mk1
I agree with you about the Maunsell, and there are other coaches there that deserve a mention.
I feel that variety, where it can be achieved, is valuable both in "telling the story" and in giving the public as wide as experience as possible of travel in the past.
Mk1s? Not my favourites as a breed, but a well restored and maintained one is "more comfortable and infinitely more stylish" than anything I've travelled in on the big railway for many years. And that, for many of the visiting public, is what they are comparing it with.
For a Mk1 anecdote can I offer the following. Many years ago I visited one of the longer preserved lines and travelled in a Mk1 TSO. Externally it was still in (a very tired) Blue/Grey livery; internally it was one that had been refurbished with Formica, fluorescent lighting etc. The train was full to bursting and as an experience with young family in tow was "disappointing". A few weeks later I travelled from our then home in North Wales to London. The first leg from Bangor to Chester turned out to be a "TransPennine" service hauled by either a class 40, or 45, and I settled down in a very nice unrefurbished Mk1 with 2+1 seating in standard class, and a very smooth and comfortable ride, and feeling that this was a much more heritage experience than the preserved line had offered! Then I swapped to a class 150 to Crewe, and an air-con Mk2 to Euston and the spell was broken!
The next time I caught a train from Bangor to Chester it was a class 142 - that was going on to Hull...
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