If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Anti-Mark Ones

Discussion in 'Heritage Rolling Stock' started by WesternRegionHampshireman, Nov 7, 2021.

  1. WesternRegionHampshireman

    WesternRegionHampshireman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2021
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    69
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Honestly I really cannot see how these are so popular, In my mind they are over-glorified pieces of cheap, mass built BR rubbish.

    Now the coaches that SHOULD get the praise are the pre-1948 coaches, the beautiful GWR, LMS, LNER Teaks, SR Bullieds and Maunsells.

    Even more so the pre-1923 coaches, SECR's, LWSR's, LBSCR's, London Underground, etc.

    Now they are beautiful!
    More of them preserved please! :D
     
    ross likes this.
  2. Johann Marsbar

    Johann Marsbar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    1,150
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Suffolk
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Offering the money to restore them then?
     
    bingleybong, Johnme101 and ghost like this.
  3. WesternRegionHampshireman

    WesternRegionHampshireman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2021
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    69
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Alas, I am not the famous person I have always wanted to be, should I win the lottery/become famous, I would happily. :)
     
  4. Johann Marsbar

    Johann Marsbar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    1,150
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Suffolk
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
  5. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    15,810
    Likes Received:
    6,448
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Mk1s are not ‘popular’ … they were available.
    If you can find more ‘pre-1923’ coaches to preserve, you need congratulating for inventing time travel :D
     
    ross, Sheff, Johnme101 and 4 others like this.
  6. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,125
    Likes Received:
    3,878
    Imagine if they hadn’t been railways such as the GWSR (just one example) would be a bit stuck now.

    Personally, as a design I think the MK1 is underrated. Considering their age, the fact that they can still be seen on the main line is incredible. They were also the last coaches built with steam haulage in mind (although the modernisation plan was in the early stages), by the time Mk2s were being built steam was well on the way out, so I always think of them as the last link to the days of steam.
     
  7. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,311
    Likes Received:
    2,309
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The OP is of course right in many ways, but in some ways it flies in the face of reality (there are no more pre-1948 coaches other than grounded bodies to be had, just preserved examples that haven't yet been restored) and there is also the fact that there were generations of Mk 1s. As with pre-nationalisations designs, interiors evolved - e.g. Gresley interiors went from predominantly polished teak to rexine during the 1930s and then to stained and polished blockboard post-war. Personally I cannot abide the later Mk 1s with formica walls and fluorescent lights, and I don't much care for the ubiquitous trojan moquette either, but that's just me!

    The real moral is that we should laud and encourage those who have put the time and effort into painstakingly restoring the coaches that we do have, and the additional ones in the pipeline - long may they continue!
     
  8. D1039

    D1039 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Messages:
    3,589
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Other things to throw into the mix

    To make services commercially viable heritage railways have to carry a baseload, not many have a fleet of six-wheelers that can do that

    You don't want to run older carriage stock in daily service, Talyllyn are just looking to build new in order to better conserve their historic vehicles

    Join groups that restore or conserve pre-grouping or pre-nationalisation rolling stock. Sponsor such carriages. The GWR(SVR)A quoted a figure of up to £150k to restore a coach (other groups and railways are available).

    Similarly, support provision of covered accommodation

    It's the same nugatory argument as with their locomotive contemporaries, the BR Standards

    Mark 1s are older than most of the population. To most of the population they're what they remember (or before what they can remember)

    Bulleids were mass produced too ("More than 800 Bulleid coaches, designed by Oliver Bulleid, were built for the Southern Railway and British Railways")

    Is a newly restored early Mark 1 aesthetically or historically inferior to a newly stored 1947 Hawksworth?

    "I can't praise the work that's gone into restoring that item of rolling stock as I've run out of praise"? There's enough to go round pre-grouping, pre-nationalisation and Mark 1s

    Patrick
     
  9. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2020
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    988
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thameslink territory
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Has anyone been going round criticising pre-MK1s?

    I haven't seen any. So why the attacks on mk 1s?
     
    Sheff likes this.
  10. WesternRegionHampshireman

    WesternRegionHampshireman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2021
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    69
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I used to volunteer with someone from the Watercress Line who could not stop himself from effing and jeffin about how Junky the old wooden bodied coaches were, I couldn't stand him.

    Hence my hatred towards Mark Ones, Bullied Pacifics and Black Fives.
     
  11. WesternRegionHampshireman

    WesternRegionHampshireman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2021
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    69
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Oh contrair! Use a time machine to travel forward into the future and bring some back hover coaches! Now THAT would be impressive!
     
  12. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,125
    Likes Received:
    3,878
    Seems bizarre one person’s opinion could have such an impact.
     
  13. WesternRegionHampshireman

    WesternRegionHampshireman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2021
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    69
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yeah I get that, but in my opinion, they are just as nice to look at as Jockpig (4472). :Vomit:
     
  14. WesternRegionHampshireman

    WesternRegionHampshireman New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2021
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    69
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Oh it's not the opinion, it was the constant banging on and on about it like it was gospel, that was the impact.

    There's opinions and then there's preaching, he preached to everybody then found it hilarious when we got ticked off about it.

    But I digress, I just think the pre-1948/1923 stuff is so much more fascinating to look at, the craftsmanship is more appreciated, also, no vintage coach looks the same.
     
  15. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2020
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    988
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thameslink territory
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    So why are you telling us?
    P.s. "Honestly I really cannot see how these are so popular, In my mind they are over-glorified pieces of cheap, mass built BR rubbish" doesn't seem to be saying much about pre-nationisation coaches...
     
  16. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    7,432
    Likes Received:
    5,640
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Worth pointing out that it isnt always immediately obvious that a Bullied or Stanier 57ft vehicle is lurking in a train of MK1's and the & Thompson vehicles are very MK1 oid
     
    flying scotsman123 likes this.
  17. 1729

    1729 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I mean take a bulleid coach, replace the wooden frame with steel, remove the quarter lights and make the main windows slightly bigger. you basically have a mk1, at the end of the day mk1s are very useful coaches for day to day running, not every line has the capability of running pre mk1 stock in day to day use let alone on there own
     
  18. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    880
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I wasn’t aware that Mk1s were popular as such? The mass use of them on heritage lines is more out of necessity than anything else. When most heritage lines started up, Mk1s were the only ready to run coaches available. Some lines have made good progress in restoring older stock, and most visitors seem to recognise these as something a bit more special than a Mk1. However the number of pre nationalisation coaches available, the amount of time and money needed to restore them, and the sheer number of passengers some lines carry, means that Mk1s will always be with us.

    A well restored Mk1 (wood panelled rather than Formica) can be a very pleasant place to be. It’s the Mk2s I can’t stand. But obviously I’ll always head for the pre 1948 coaches if there are any in the train.
     
  19. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    880
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Conmon attitude at the MHR in the 1980s and 1990s. Sadly that’s why their collection of pre nationalisation coaches got decimated.
     
  20. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,311
    Likes Received:
    2,309
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    "Hatred" was a word used by the OP, and I find that very sad - it's only a hobby for goodness sake, why get so emotive? Save hatred for the really bad things in life! I can't even bring myself to hate Donald Trump or Boris Johnson and they are both pretty vile characters!
     

Share This Page