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841 Greene King

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by mr scotland, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. mr scotland

    mr scotland New Member

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    Are there any plans for this locomotive, or will it just either stay as a set of frames forever or be broken up someday? It's sad to think it's run in preservation but yet it's pretty far away from that right now.
     
  2. Jark91

    Jark91 Member

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    I could be way off here but I'm sure I read that 841 had donated so many of its parts to 825 that it's effectively just a source of spares now with no real prospect of operating again. But like I could said, I might have my wires crossed there.
     
  3. mr scotland

    mr scotland New Member

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    That seems to be what everyone's thinking, but surely the most economic thing to do then would be to strip all the useful parts off it and then scrap it, and use the scrap metal value to "offset the cost of 76079" (which is what 2253 is supposed to do when it sells).
     
  4. Bramblewick

    Bramblewick Member

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    If it sells. It has been on the market for a good long time, and you never know what effect the visit of 6046 will have on NYMR policy towards 2253.
     
  5. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    From what I've read, 825 is mostly 841. The Essex Locomotive Society (not the NYMR) have three S15's: 825, 841 and 830, making 1 good loco out of 3. The boiler from 830 for example should be going onto 825 next when it comes out of service for overhaul shortly.
     
  6. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    There were, if I remember correctly, issues with the alignment of the frames of 841.
     
  7. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, and doesn't the Urie group have a spare S15 boiler, meanwhile?
     
  8. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

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    Urie group have three boilers. There is now another update avalible on the MHR web site.


    ULS
     
  9. mr scotland

    mr scotland New Member

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    This thread was inspired by that update. The urie society nicked 825's boiler at barry, because 506's firebox had a badly corroded top. Therefore, the Urie guys have 3 boilers for two locomotives, and the essex guys have 2 boilers for three "sets of frames" (let's be real here). If the urie guys sold their crummiest boiler to the essex guys, surely everybody would be happy?
     
  10. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    Nicked, or purchased with the full agreement of Dai Woodham?
     
  11. mr scotland

    mr scotland New Member

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    You know what I mean. :p
     
  12. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    So to summarise - 825's frames are the best given they are in traffic, 841's are wonky, what condition are 830's frames in ?.

    and 841's boiler is in traffic on 825 with 830's being worked on ?.

    Who said cut and shut loco's were a GWR speciality ;)
     
  13. mr scotland

    mr scotland New Member

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    Correct. Meanwhile, the urie society's third boiler has "sauntered up" from portland, to replace 499's one, even though both are ex-barry and the portland one has a known crack on the crown of the firebox, which was originally deemed "unrepairable". Brilliant. 499's must be really bad, though.
     
  14. mr scotland

    mr scotland New Member

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    The bluebell's 847 and the ERPS' 828 are the only two S15s not involved in this boiler swap-shop. 2/7. Not bad.
     
  15. Swan Age

    Swan Age Member

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    Not quite correct in your analysis.

    The first point to make is that back in 1979 when the problems with 506`s boiler (boiler No. 451) came to light it was deemed to be unrepairable at that time due to the lack of boiler repair facilities that existed in preservation. Remember there was no SVR boiler shop. Riley and Son, or LNWR at Crewe and the MHR had no boiler shop either.

    So looking around Barry the Urie S15 preservation group as they were known at that time selected a boiler that was in relatively good condition and with Dia Woodhams full agreement and co-operation allowed the boiler off of 825 (boiler No.799) to be sold and removed from the loco.
    This was subsequently fitted to 506 and overhauled so that the loco could enter traffic in 1987.

    506`s original boiler was laid aside and stored for nearly twenty years untouched before moving to Portland around 2003/4 for assesment.

    After 499 was subsequently purchased later, it spent a few years in store at Ropley before heading north to Bury and the boiler (boiler No.755) was overhauled by Riley and fitted to 506 in around 1996 at the expiry of 506`s first ticket on 825`s donor boiler, allowing 506 to run with very little downtime.

    825`s boiler returned to Ropley and was put in store.

    After 506 came out of traffic a few years back. The 499 donor boiler was lifted and taken into the MHR boilershop for an overhaul that is currently taking place.

    Thus currently sitting in Ropley yard are the 825 donor boiler which has been ticketed in preservation and 506`s original boiler that has not steamed since 1964 and returned earlier this year from Portland and which is i believe the preferred option to be overhauled to go on 499, in a few years.

    Not forgetting the fact that the the ERPS boiler off of 828 is also in Ropley yard and being overhauled by the ERPS to go back onto 828!

    So technically 825 could be fitted with its original boiler if the ULS decided to sell it back, which seems unlikely.
     
  16. Swan Age

    Swan Age Member

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    Attached are photos of the two boilers in Ropley yard taken last weekend. Boiler no 451.jpg Boiler no 799.jpg
     
  17. mr scotland

    mr scotland New Member

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    Thank you very much for the pictures, and apologies for my blunt analysis. I have a computer and a fascination with S15s, but I don't have a very good way of expressing it! The ULS website is actually very good, as it details which boiler is from where and what the plan is. Is it likely 841's frames will have a working boiler in them ever again?
     
  18. Swan Age

    Swan Age Member

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    Who knows? Seems unlikely, but never say never.

    Incidentally for anyone thats interested the MHR website has an up to date news report from the ULS detailing the current position, posted today. 506`s frame problems are mentioned and it just seems to highlight that these locos (S15`s) are old and the frames are needing heavy repairs nowadays.
     
  19. kieranhardy

    kieranhardy Well-Known Member

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    I have definitely read (probably on the Maunsell group website) that part of the agreement of the sale of 830 was to restore her as 830 rather than using her as an indefinite spare parts locomotive to keep another running. I assume this is still the case unless 825 will carry 830's boiler and in the future 830 once restored may gain 825's present one?

    Infact here is the page:

    http://www.maunsell.org.uk/virtual shed/830/830_profile.htm

    At the very bottom it states: 830 is to be found on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, being now owned by the Essex locomotive locomotive group. She is to be restored as 830 (a condition of sale).
     
  20. Bramblewick

    Bramblewick Member

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    My understanding is that 830's boiler will go into 825's frames in the medium term in order to make sure that that locomotive spends as little time out of traffic as possible, with 841's boiler going into 830's frames.
     

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