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7027 Thornbury Castle

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I still believe that on Mr Gregory 's side, there was an element of if i can't have my way, then, I out of spite will sell the engine to someone who I know does not want it to restore as it is, but to cannibalise for its parts, so that the actual engine never gets restored as 7027 I view it as the final insult to the GCR over his loss of power there.
     
  2. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to the guy we don't really know why he sold. He had his 70th birthday on the GCR in 2014 which would make him 78 now, so perhaps it is just age or some sudden ill health that caused a change of mind. Sometimes people get sick but keep quiet about how serious it is. I was told by a friend of mine that he was one of the founders of the GCR, any truth in that ?

    If as the post above shows that the 47xx group came forward quickly with a firm offer, he may have just decided to accept because of personal circumstance or been persuaded to do so by his family.

    Still a sad situation for the loco though.
     
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  3. GWRman

    GWRman New Member

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    From what I understand the money is there to initially save the loco and formal offers and inquiries have been made to the GCR, GWS and 4709 group, all of which have decided to remain silent and not respond.

    Likewise, how are the 47xx and Star funds coming along?

    Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
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  4. dunghill1

    dunghill1 New Member

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    The G.W.S have restricted funds for 4709 stated in their annual accounts
     
  5. Fireline

    Fireline Member

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    Ah, but how much is that? Are we talking part-restored Barry wreck money, or "we've got to find £800K if we give this boiler up" money? As 4709 have not set a price, it's impossible to say how much money is needed.
     
  6. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Who is "revelling"? I for one would love to see 4709 progressing and a Star being built, and I am not too bothered about losing one incomplete Castle. But that's a long way from "revelling", especially when some good arguments have been presented here as to why the boiler and frames of Thornbury Castle are poor choices for the 4709 and Star projects.
     
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  7. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Were the rumours upthread of his death exaggerated?
     
  8. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think if Mr. Gregory had passed away, considering his significance in founding Cromwell Tools there'd be an obituary somewhere.
     
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  9. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    I think the Moderators might want to intervene as Michael Gregory has substantial wealth to instigate a libel action if he wanted to.

    We must not tread over the libel line unless you can back this up.

    From my perspective, Michael Gregory just decided to get rid of a bottomless pit of expense that was Thornbury Castle - the same decision JJP made, and PW made. A pattern here, and as we have heard nothing further about the 9F Michael Gregory owns (he hasn't torn up an agreement with the GCR for it and payed compensation for a breach of contract) I don't think the extreme posts about him on here are - or could be in a libel claim be defended.
     
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  10. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Well-Known Member

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    As I have been following the Thornbury story since its arrival on the GCR I have had very mixed feelings about these latest developments.
    I have only briefly met Mr Gregory twice, but do think that he has spent a lot of his money on making many parts of the GCR better. I recognise that other people may well have different perceptions.
    Similarly Mr Gough has had a very tough time especially with the Covid crisis. Whilst he also could be difficult, I believe he worked very hard and effectively to progress the Great Central and make a substantial improvement to the railways infrastructure and finances.
    It is always a difficult balancing act between Heritage, Authenticity and Commercial reality.
    I am very proud to have been supporting the GC/MLPG since 1969 and know that it has had a long and difficult relationship with individuals.....but the GC continues to go....... Forward!
     
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  11. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

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    We hear much about the “Politics of envy” ; it appears within our movement to have wealth is
    something to be ashamed of. If a donation to a Heritage Railway is large and the donor then
    tries to involve himself with the recipient body this is apparently regarded by some as unacceptable?
    Surely we all know the Heritage Railway movement is under severe financial strain !!

    The large, totally without strings gift, I suspect is rare ? Less envy perhaps, more gratitude !
    I know nothing of Mr Gregory, nor I suspect do many of his apparent detractors on this forum ?
    But he has apparently been a generous benefactor to the Great Central ?

    Michael Rowe
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2022
  12. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    This thread has been going a little while now and generated a fair amount of heat, seen the expression of plenty of unease regarding the potential loss of 7027, and featured some fanciful ill informed nonsense about creating a Star from the remnants of 7027 whilst a crude short cut is taken in the quest to further the 4709 project.

    But nobody has so far offered to spear head a scheme to acquire 7027 for eventual restoration in its own right.

    As somebody involved in the 1970s and since extracting and restoring locos from Woodhams yard I find this to be a sad reflection indeed on todays younger enthusiasts who appear unable to motivate and organise themselves to do as others did 30 to 50 years ago. Why is this?
    Unless somebody actually comes forward and grasps the nettle with this all the angst becomes pretty pointless.
    Having got to 3 score years & ten I am not looking to take on such a role myself. I am actively involved in 3 useful ex GW locos which have a bright operating future and the ownership and restoration of a fourth with similar prospects as well as wider heritage railway involvement.

    I do though want to see 7027 retained & restored in its own identity
    (I'm really not fussed about a 47xx unless it is built exactly to the GW drawings) and therefore offer a challenge and a suggestion.
    My suggestion is that pledges of finance in significant amounts are collected with a sensible deadline. (say £500 minimum, £1000+ preferred). Those pledges would be called in when a suitable owning body had been formed following successful negotiation for acquisition. A suitable owning body such as a Community Benefit Society would need to be formed to properly assume ownership.

    I will pledge the first £1000, who is going to take up the challenge and take this forward?

    As a GWS life member I still find it beyond belief that this organisation could countenance involvement in the loss of a Castle.
     
  13. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Isn't that more or less what JJP has offerred?

    Something like that was already suggested up thread but seems to have prompted few pledges.

    There is a third essential component to any such scheme; agreement by the individual(s) who now apparently own 7027 to re-sell it. We may hope that they can be persuaded to do so, which might mean asking very nicely instead of lambasting them as philistines.
     
  14. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    whilst I absolutely agree with @1472's sentiments , Nat Pres isn't necessarily a place I want to pledge money publically

    Since the 4709 group may not like being lambasted , equally as owners of 7027, asking them nicely when they hold the solution to their missing boiler and without it they have no boiler and a very big bill is not likely to ellicit a positive response .

    Pressure needs to remain on both the GWS , 4709 group to make the most palatable solution making 7027 available[/QUOTE]
     
  15. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Well, though I said it before, I'll hereby pledge £500 towards the purchase of 7027.
     
  16. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    No JJP effectively offered bridging finance to enable acquisition whilst an owning group was formed.
     
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  17. Mike S

    Mike S New Member

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    You know how to silence a thread with a post like that..... Where is all the support?
     
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  18. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    The intention was'nt to seek pledges here on NP but to find folk who would step forward and collect such promises by whatever appropriate means.

    In other words actually do something!!

    No qualification is needed beyond determination.

    Advice on how a group of folk can form an owning organisation is available.........
     
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  19. Musket The Dog

    Musket The Dog New Member

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    Because the job at hand is very different to the one in the 1970's? I've seen no shortage of young volunteers, both motivated and organised but mostly gainfully 'employed' on all the projects that already exist. Of all the GWS' projects, which would you propose gives up their younger volunteers to go and spearhead the long term restoration of 7027? Alternatively, show me all the prospective volunteers under 30, sat around not interested in anything on the heritage lines currently, but with a few spare grand to throw at buying a locomotive and more than 1 day a week to commit to getting it running again or finding people that can. Removing the rose tinted specs for a second, we're not talking about buying something for the price of scrap which isn't going anywhere while we get the cash together, that can then sit in a siding for decades while we develop a heritage railway around it any more...

    We've already seen how quickly prospective new build groups formed by a few young people get shot down around here, why should we now expect that same crowd to suddenly be capable of taking on this?
     
  20. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    So what is your solution then? (whilst trying to see beyond the negativity in your post).
     

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