Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.
So are you offering to set up and become a trustee of a fund to do this?
You're not the only one, believe me. But unless the new owners change their minds it won't happen. Thankfully we can chose where our money goes and mine won't be going anywhere near the 47xx group after this.
Where are the other 999 people going to magically appear from, with so many other deserving projects asking for money and living costs sky-rocketing? What happens if only 200 pay up?
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There’s a few more of us than the readers of Steam Railway to keep onside though…
This is one of the key points as per one of the questions I asked earlier. If people are to give large sums of money then there needs to be a credible plan backed up by credible people along with a team who have the experience to deliver the project to give some sort of confidence.
Finding 1000 people to part with £500 will be no easy task, bordering on impossible without the above.
With all the talk of restoration to be done by a new society, or whatever, one thing remains and that is 7027 has new owners. There hasn't been any new 'news' so it seems that they are happy with their new acquisition and 7027 is not for sale.
7027 has had a very chequered existence since BR disposed of her. With her history, which seems to show a reluctance in restoration by all previous owners, to complete the job. Contrary to all the wishful thinking here there in 'saviour' waiting in the wings. JJP has stated that he only wished to be a shareholder - not outright owner and when his earlier ownership stated that it would be fifteen years in completion.
Where were all those who now are concerned when she languid in sidings or warehouses?
Put your spare cash or cheque books away; there are more deserving causes waiting help in my view.
Oh rest assured, he wasn't aware that she was under restoration, he is really not onside now (and don't get him started on river and sea pollution)!
Are you talking about 7027 or 4709, both seem to suffer from this quandary?
Yep 100% correct. All hot air and wailing and no credible action. GWS management are right though, its todays news and tomorrows chip papers. Just like the 8F was and no doubt over the next few years many more
she wasn't at risk at the time and there was no option for a group to be established . The peril 7027 is in has crystalised peoples minds and opinions
GWS management might like to reflect on the fact that their next appeal may be met with a much more muted response and there will be those who will not forget and will continue to remind them and all willing to listen of the part they played . What goes around comes around
What I find really sad (and a little disturbing) is there are some on the forum who seem to be revelling in the demise of 7027 (along with 48518, 4115, 2861, 5227) , as if the destruction of engines is a badge to be worn with pride
I think this is something that a few people don’t quite get, there’s a lot more than 7027/4709’s future at stake here. I’ve said in past things like trust and goodwill, you can’t put a monetary value on.
That’s something those in Oxfordshire whatever group they are seem to have forgotten.
to be fair if it hadn't been for Barry we wouldn't have any of the Moguls, S15s or the Q...
There's a point that needs to be made again I think. The people at Didcot have repeatedly stated they were blindsided by an autonomous group they have no control over. Whatever you may think of the actions of the 4709 group and their colleagues at Tyseley, and whatever you think of the group having that level of autonomy, repeatedly saying GWS this and Didcot that is quite literally accusing the people who are at Didcot of being liars. And as they are probably already angry about the amount of totally unjustified **** being rained down on their heads, I submit that its utterly unfair to deliver this kind of personal abuse, and its entirely understandable that they have on occasion lost their cool in trying to handle the abuse.
However, 4709 is a restricted fund of GWS so the language is accurate. Those in leadership roles at GWS objecting to the blame landing at their door need to consider their role in enabling this to have happened.
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autonomous - adjective
1. (of a country or region) having the freedom to govern itself or control its own affairs.
"the federation included sixteen autonomous republics"
What role? The autonomy of these groups predates the people who are being given all the ****.
That may be the case however the fund raising and gift aid collection routes through the GWS and the GWS is the registered address . As such senior management should be aware of what these groups are doing and ensuring the groups objectives align with those of the GWS . Saying nothing to do with us is not an option
Just for clarity (because I’m not really following on Facebook, and in any case I don’t know who’s who in those circles to judge): who are you defending, and @Sidmouth accusing, here - the powers-that-be in the GWS, or in the 4709 group?
To my eyes, there is still a lack of clarity about the corporate structure of 4709, and who exactly now owns Thornbury Castle. I think you, and the GWS powers, seem to be saying “it’s not the GWS” - but if so, which organisation actually owns it? When I look up the 4709 website, I don’t see any independent organisation, just a group based under the GWS umbrella, and who use all the financial infrastructure (payment mechanism, charitable status etc) of the GWS to raise funds. So to me, 4709 and the GWS are indivisible. If that is wrong, then I think it needs some light shed on it from the Trustees of the GWS. But neither situation looks ideal: either 4709 is part of the GWS - which throws into question their statements - or it isn’t - which throws into question their Governance of the Society in allowing an autonomous group to act as if to all intents and purposes it was part of the GWS.
In other words - if the Trustees of the GWS wish to distance themselves from 4709, they need to explain why hitherto it appears that 4709 is complete subsidiary to the GWS.
I shall sign off from this before I say things that are better unsaid. Others might be well advised to consider the same policy.
But surely a simple statement, regarding 4709/7027 and it’s ownership could clarify things couldn’t it? Until someone sticks their head above the parapet and says this the situation there’s going to be a load of brown stuff, rightly or wrongly thrown In that direction, the problem is, a lot of it’s going stick for some time.
Nip it in the bud and do it ASAP because otherwise there’s a the potential for a lot of damage to be done, (if it’s not already been done)
But the 4709 group is not and cannot be autonomous as long as it is a gws project and has its banking and gift aid arranged through the gws.
Whatever way they want to spin it, the buck stops with the trustees and they can't argue "we didn't know what was going on" - it is quite literally their job as trustees to know what's going on.
Separate names with a comma.