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7027 Thornbury Castle

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant Member

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    I have a good bit of faith in the Baby Deltic project. The component parts have existed for years (class 20 bogies, class 37 body and a lucky find in the last correct engine for it). Its just (just) a 1:1 scale job to put them all together and a lot of the funding is coming from the small inner circle. Is it any different than the 47xx when you boil down what its trying to do and how it gets there? Not really but its likely to be the first "New Build" diesel to run so will be the pattern any other attempts follow. But there are fewer gaps in the world of British diesels than British steam. And the missing gaps are often a warning from history whereas a lot of steam we're missing was because of policy choices made by BR. Never mind gaps of extinct classes, imagine what preservation would look like with even another 10 Standard 4 tanks?
     
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  2. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

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    Which does raise an interesting question. Commercially they would be popular, and probably first in the overhaul queue as each became due. That would of course mean other classes waiting longer for their turn in overhaul, and hence probably less diversity with regard to operational locomotives.
    So. . . would the world of railway preservation be better or worse if there were a larger number of a medium size class of locos?
     
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  3. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The actions of 'honoury' presidential holders seems to be a recurring theme in this sorry saga, hopefully in all cases their reputations and legacies will reflect this....

    Who would have thought even 10 years back that the scrapping of a locomotive under restoration would be met with such glee by posters on here, suppose its just a sign of people's interpretations changing.
     
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  4. 5801

    5801 Member

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    Give me one example of anyone on here who has expressed "glee". Reluctant acceptance of the realities of life, maybe, but glee? I don't think so.
     
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I thought this was all to do with 'opportunity cost' of creating something different rather than another example of something that already exists many times over.

    I've not read comments as gleeful so much as optimistic for something else. Of course that is debatable and that's what is happening. Only a few are trying to turn it into something combative.
     
  6. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    Precisely, i have been painted to be the villian of the peace but that is indicative of hysteria when the fairytale dies. Cinderella doesn't always go to the ball.

    I actually agree 100% with the editorial of steam railway as its crunch time now and a lot of 'presereved' rolling stock will either go in the pot or go for spares.. this applies even to those with copper capped chimneys and nice names.

    Unless YOU have the loot to do something about it of course...
     
  7. D1039

    D1039 Part of the furniture

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    I'm not up to speed but several of the class (80079 and 80064/80100 for example) aren't first in their respective overhaul queues?
     
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  8. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Yes, I was thinking about 80100 - presumably Bluebell see a strategic need for it in years to come, hence not selling her on - I would have thought that there would be a number of interested parties given how useful 4MT tanks seem to be in the preservation world.
     
  9. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Resident of Nat Pres

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    But what value would put on 80100 as IF the 'strategic need' is for example just it's boiler as a spare for their other standard tank then it's 'worth' to the Bluebell should be in the order of what a new boiler would cost should the day ever arrive when 80151 requires significant boiler repairs. Now we know the rough cost of a new boiler is from this thread (the neck end of £800k perhaps) - is anyone prepared to pay that much for a Barry wreck? Of course this assumes 80100's boiler is in excellent condition although personally I'd rather see 80100 restored to traffic rather than robbed just to keep another loco going.
     
  10. Lord Belborough

    Lord Belborough New Member

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    It's the exact opposite - thanks to the GWS the collection of artefacts at Didcot is truly astounding. GWS is more than just locomotives, there's all the carriages and wagons, a museum packed full of historical items, drawings (used by a number of other groups when machining new parts) and thousands of slides all being digitally catalogued.
     
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  11. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Which makes what’s happening with 7027 all the more gobsmacking.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  12. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    The analogy I might draw is that at some stage it might be necessary to fit modern engines into heritage diesels, it has already happened - not in preservation to some 's 03's that were exported to Belgium & the Dutch version of the 08.

    Do these loco's give the 'experience' of the original? I suggest not.

    Ditto I suggest a 47xx with a Castle boiler
     
  13. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Couple of observations from today

    The rudeness emanating from the project leads at Didcot over the ill feeling that flows their way is really disappointing . Tone deaf and insensitive . These people are out of control and hiding behind the Didcot umbrella

    One thing that does occur to me is that JJp's potential involvement whilst hopeful for the engine is probably a distraction from everyone else in trying to organise and get a feeling what practical and financial support exists and also to organise a longer term protest
     
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  14. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Several people have sought to justify the 4709 proposal by saying that in the 50 years since being saved from Barry, no group has actually done anything towards restoring the locomotive. The fact is, it has been owned by a succession of wealthy (but not wealthy enough) individuals, who have all more or less said "I can do this myself, yes I can. No I can't. Someone make me an offer"
    She has been the victim of vanity, pride, apathy, and now spite.
    Would I put money into the loco? A "peoples Castle"? Yes I would as I said here 7027 Thornbury Castle
     
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  15. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    I would, not because I am particularly bothered about GW Castles, but as the ultimate ‘up yours’ to the bloke who tried to get it scrapped.


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  16. Mike S

    Mike S New Member

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    Now ten days on and with enough hot air generated on here, Farcebook and elsewhere to steam a Castle from London to Birmingham and round and round in enough circles to wear out a set of even the most resilient turntable bearings.....!

    The 2 million pound questions (no pun intended) as I see it are as follows.

    How much money has been pledged to be called upon to purchase the engine at short notice if the opportunity arises?

    How much money has been pledged towards the 7 figure sum required to get 7027 steaming again?

    Who is leading the above/forming a possible group, I've not seen anything?

    Is there a suitably experienced/skilled project manager lined up to oversee restoration or another group ready and waiting to take 7027 under their wing without too much detriment to their existing aims?

    Is there a good number of volunteers lined up including skilled machinists, people with financial and fund raising skills etc. with a few days a week spare?

    Is there a home for the project, could it remain at GC for example?

    Without the above what will change for 7027 if the current sale falls through or gets blocked? Would there be a risk that even worse could happen???


    I'm just trying to insert a little realism in to the situation. All I have been seeing is comments but no action. A petition is all very well and good but without some of the above what is it going to achieve?

    Real action is required if people want the situation to change in my view.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
  17. Fireline

    Fireline Member

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    80100 is the only 4MT tank that the Bluebell owns itself, as I understand it. That was the logic behind keeping it. The other two could depart, subject to any agreements, but 80100 will remain.
     
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  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Indeed, though in the last few years the Bluebell Railway Trust has, via various bequests, built up a 40% stake in 80151.

    80064 is privately owned.

    If the ownership of either loco developed such that it was wholly owned by the Bluebell, the logic for holding 80100 would change, but until then it is seen as a long-term overhaul prospect for the railway - it is not at risk as a parts donor to the other two. Having a mix of company-owned and group-owned locos though means that typically the group-owned locos tend to get ahead in the overhaul queue since they tend to bring their own additional revenue sources.

    Probably best continued on another thread.

    Tom
     
  19. GWRman

    GWRman New Member

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    Is it fair to compared what a business does to its locos with an organisation that has the main goal of preserving railway history?

    Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
     
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  20. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed - I agree. Woodhams is mainly about GW locomotives however there are plenty of HRs in the South that would lament the loss of their Q, U and N classes along with the plethora of Bulleid's that suit the mainline. As for 35029 - it's still there for the next generation to gaze upwards and maybe learn what makes steam live & breath. As a very young lad, I must confess to the National History Museum inspiring me towards living creatures in a similar way perhaps?
     

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