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7027 Thornbury Castle

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

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    Is it possible that Peak Rail might be able to make use of these locomotives (on condition of overhauling them first), if a deal has been struck with Waterman?

    With all their plans of expansion, it could really help if they had extra motive power for the line, which are more suitable for it mainline image wise too.
     
  2. 46118

    46118 New Member

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    I assume also that there is no uptodate news about the Waterman GW 0-6-2T, the number of which escapes me, with the frames sheeted over at Bridgnorth, and the replacement boiler/firebox unit still at Crewe.
    Last comment some considerable while ago from the SVR was that the matter was "with legal advisors".

    46118
     
  3. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Seems a somewhat risky approach as to overhaul them would I suspect cost at least upwards of £1m and the ownership still be vested with another, but good solution for PW if the storage is not costing anything.

    Also seems peculiar that 7027 has been placed in a prominent location as at least the Prairie and 2-8-0 tank have been previously restored and with a little tidying would be a much better advert?
     
  4. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    but exactly what Swanage are doing with the three moguls.
     
  5. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I suppose in terms of PR the deal could be if you take the tanks under this agreement then you have to give me free storage for the Castle, overhauls possibly make more sense but to take on a Barry restoration of something the size of a Castle doesn't seem to make much sense for PR in terms of either cost or suitability for the line itself?
     
  6. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    Is it right that 6634 is as complete as it can be without a boiler and thus has been in limbo at Bridgnorth for some time ?, think many places would be considering serving an eviction notice in such circumstances.
     
  7. Andy2857

    Andy2857 New Member

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    Pretty much bang on. As for any progress with regards to legal proceedings, I have no idea. Besides this definitely wouldn't be the place to discus them!
     
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  8. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Member

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    It seems as though PW has lost interest to me. Are any of his fleet still running? Thought the Super D was having a fastrack overhaul once its ticket ran out but haven't heard anything since. I have a sneaking suspicion that Peak Rail will end up regretting having that lot dumped on their site at some point and there lays an opportunity for a lawyer in the making...
     
  9. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think the thing is that PW likes the PR and exposure that preservation provides, see the big announcement regarding the fast track overhaul of the Super D (where is she now as I thought all assets associated with PW were being removed from Crewe, I assume a trip back to the NRM will be the order unless she goes elsewhere for the PW funded overhaul), the song and dance about the model sales and the various pieces over the years regarding 7027 all of which SR etc lap up. I never really understood the idea of funding the Super D overhaul (which is to be lauded) whilst the owned fleet stood idle and decaying apart from overhauling a unique locomotive gains more column inches than various comparatively common GWR classes.

    Going forward I assume the further issue is that whilst previously there was a potential for in house restoration at Crewe that ship has sailed and now restorations/overhauls will have to be paid for by external contractors.

    The gentleman has done a lot for preservation but I am inclined to agree with your initial analysis sadly although I have nothing apart from speculation and would be delighted to be proven wrong.
     
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  10. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    The Super D is part of the National Collection and currently on display at Shildon. Like many other locomotives in the National Collection the only possibility of it steaming again is if someone comes up with a fully funded and resourced proposal. Mr Waterman personally or through the Waterman Heritage Trust may or may not be discussing such a possibility with the NRM but my personal opinion is not to hold your breath.

    One would also hope that prior to locomotives and rolling stock from the Waterman Heritage Trust collection moving to Peak Rail due diligence took place and signed binding agreements were put in place. Anyone who has followed the involvement of Mr Waterman in railway preservation /operations / engineering for the past quarter century would expect no less. If not then another interesting chapter in the saga will ensue I suspect.
     
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  11. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Perhaps he needs a few more big hits. There's not the money in the music business there used to be, and if you don't want to end up like Alan Pegler you trim your expenditure to match your income. Not that I have any idea whatsoever what Mr Waterman's financial situation is, but looking at the music charts it seems unlikely his annual income is what it was when his productions were dominating in a much bigger business.
     
  12. cjbarnes5294

    cjbarnes5294 New Member

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    I think it is worth keeping in mind that Pete suffered a terrible personal tragedy not long after the Super D was restored when his eldest son died unexpectedly in 2005. If that made him lose a lot of interest in the preservation of steam locos, which lets face it whilst bringing a lot of joy to everyone can also be wearisome with the amount of money, time and sheer hard graft required to look after them properly, I really couldn't blame him. And I'm sure he meant everything he said in the various press releases with the best of intentions but you know, sometimes things don't pan out how you expected them to and life gives you a new set of priorities to focus on instead.

    Kind regards,
    Chris
     
  13. huochemi

    huochemi Well-Known Member Friend

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    It may be more prosaic, that he is simply fed up of chucking £20 notes into the firebox. Several other loco owners have called it a day faced with the continual outflow of cash. The surprise is that Mr H hangs in there. I wonder what the deal on the Super D was i.e. if Mr Waterman paid for the overhaul, who was entitled to the revenue from hiring out the loco? It may encourage sponsors to step forward if they can keep the revenue, which would cushion some of the upfront costs. Midland Compound anyone?
     
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  14. david1984

    david1984 Well-Known Member

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    While you have a point, it's hardly a suprise that loco owners will finish with far less ££££ than they started out with, it's always been a hobby rather than a money making business as it's near impossible to make it pay, Jeremy Hosking can cushion such costs more easily than most, presumably due the sheer amount he's starting with, thank god the scene has people like him really.
     
  15. daveannjon

    daveannjon Member

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    The PR annual accounts have just arrived and have the following:

    "Pete Waterman has moved all his locomotives to Peak Rail and is now considering the establishment of his proposed apprenticeship scheme. This is very much dependent on the appointment of a suitable person to oversee the mechanical engineering of both his locomotive overhauls and those of Peak Rail. Following discussions a very highly experienced engineer has been identified and we are in the process of formalising his appointment to oversee all mechanical engineering on the railway."

    (The notes were written early in May and actually Class 46 Ixion didn't arrive last week due to transport problems.)

    Dave
     
  16. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Interesting to note that a workshop manager from a railway in the south has recently left for new employment, I wonder if there is a connection?
     
  17. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Presumably that rules out an overhaul for 7027 for the foreseeable future. I thought the apprenticeship scheme at Crewe had started and the overhaul of 109 for the WHR was started, but then stopped when some government funding was withdrawn? If that is the case then presumably new funding would be required to restart the scheme at PR.


    Keith
     
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  18. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    Is is more a case of PW wanting to get government grants for the training of apprentices so setting up the company will happen and once that's done the overhauls will start? So that way it costs pete the minimum as it's cheap/free labour?
     
  19. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    That's the issue though Gavin - are any such grants available now if their withdrawal led to the collapse of the first apprenticeship scheme?


    Keith
     
  20. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Yes the government funding was stopped which put an end to the restoration of 109. One of traits of the current government is to cut funding for something so they look like they are making tough choices, then re-introduce it with a different name a few years later to make them look socially progressive. In the meantime all the previous hard work goes down the drain. I can't say i'm the biggest fan of Mr Waterman but he has always been keen to champion and train apprentices. He certainly put a lot of time and money into it even if it wasn't successful.

    Tim
     

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