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7027 Thornbury Castle

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. Fireline

    Fireline Member

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    Am I the only one to think that if one were to, for the sake of argument, buy a Castle on the cheap in a "fire sale", threaten it's future, then make Joe Bloggs pay through the nose to save it, one might obtain a significant funding boost for one's own project? Just thinking out loud....
     
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  2. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

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    You'd think the 'right' offer would be 'cost of purchase by 4709 group' + 'costs incurred by 4709 group whilst they've been buggering around'… if the 4709 group are seeking to equate the offer with eg a number significantly bigger than the price they paid the former owner, the whole game goes back to square one…

    Simon
     
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  3. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with 4709/GWS snapping up a bargain and selling it on at a profit, if they achieve that. Free market economics and all that.
    However:
    One interesting question is exactly what 4709/GWS own and are therefore selling. By which I mean, had any parts been purchased by GCR on behalf of the former owner, but not yet billed to him, and therefore not transferred to 4709/GWS as part of the sale? I have no idea (and I doubt any such information would ever be made public) but it would potentially alter both the value of what is on offer, and the viability of the project to restore it, if there is any confusion around this.
     
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  4. Chris86

    Chris86 Member

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    Isn't there a Dean goods boiler kicking about at Didcot?

    Lengthen the cladding, change the smokebox slightly and voila!

    A night owl with a boiler more suited to plodding up and down 1/4 mile of the demo line.

    If its OK to do it with a Castle boiler I don't see the problem...........
     
  5. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    those wanting to save 7027 are to an extent over a barrel and depending on some good faith from the GWS that the sale price is not widely different from that paid to purchase it .

    I get the argument on leverage and basically funding the new boiler for 4709 but to me that feels not in the spirit of the movement which regularly shares parts , expertise etc around for mutual benefit

    Time as others have said to organise , don't wait to see if the white knight arrives with a bag of cash .
     
  6. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    No-one seems to have commented on this bit from the Rail Advent article:
    That implies that some parts have not yet passed to GWS ownership. Are those only the parts that Tyseley has offered, or has the GWS not yet paid for all the parts from the GCR?
     
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  7. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    I read that as meaning "all the parts which remain of 7027" i.e. the boiler, frames, wheels, whatever.

    And I read "continues to be committed to buying" as "someone signed a bit of paper on our behalf and now we have to pay the remaining instalments". (It isn't clear what the original deal involved, but this is at least consistent with the 4709 fundraising appeal from a month or so back which seemed to say "we're buying this, now we need donations to pay for it".)
     
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  8. Hirn

    Hirn Member

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    Given I have the spirit of Chris86's posts right, and enlarging rather literally?:

    Well seeable as ensuring no likely new build Dean Goods.
    "OK to do it with a Castle boiler" as a precedent changes the problem at best or mischievously inspires more problems - plural.
    Would certainly wreck the case for running the Night Owl on the main line which would get fees and publicise it for gifts to ensure its future.
     
  9. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    And still the pointless speculation, unnecessary comment and "dancing on the head of a pin" trying to decide what this or that wording implies continues. That simply wastes time.
    The message is it is time to organise if you want to see 7027 survive in its own right.
    I cannot personally arrange this as there are already four ex GW locos which take up all my spare time and more and the few other active folks in other groups are similarly flat out. Unless new folk come forward, organise themselves and are willing to give quite some priority to 7027 nothing will happen.
    I will though honour my previous pledges made quite some pages ago now.
     
  10. Chris86

    Chris86 Member

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    Its every bit as authentic to use the Dean goods boiler in the Night Owl frames as a Castle boiler.......

     
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  11. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Could they not use the boiler off the Saint replica?
     
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  12. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Nah, if they are going down that route they could just use the no.1 off the 28 they have scrapped?
     
  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Was that so they could use the 28's regulator handle on another new build?
     
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  14. Mr Valentine

    Mr Valentine Member

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    The regulator handle was intended for the Great Bear Project, but owing to the boiler having been dropped down three feet into the frames for mainline running, it was found that it could only be moved off the stop 1" before hitting the cab roof. To alleviate this, the project's engineering lead had the handle modified by bending it down, but found that the regulator could not be shut without hitting the cab floor. The project management team are currently evaluating their options.
     
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  15. Mike S

    Mike S New Member

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    Given everything you have on the go the offer to provide some guidance setting up a group was a very generous one, I take it nobody has made contact?

    See you tomorrow to help get another GW 4-6-0 a little closer to steaming
     
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  16. Gareth

    Gareth New Member

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    Frames are wrong on the tender for a Hawksworth, but i suppose you could possibly do cosmetic work so they look like Hawksworth ones.
     
  17. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Be interesting to see what’s considered the ‘right offer’ Why is it I have a feeling the ‘right offer’ however much it might be might be ‘not what we consider a fair price’ regarding 7027?
     
  18. Mike S

    Mike S New Member

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    What do you consider to be a fair price?
     
  19. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Maybe what was paid to its previous owner would be a start.
    There might be a further price that GWS has to pay further down the road maybe?
     
  20. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Some pages back, Simon corrected my statement that Pete Waterman had done nothing towards 7027's restoration, asserting that PW had had a new Hawksworth tank built. I believe that may have subsequently been separated from 7027, which in all pictures since she went to Weston Super Mare, appears to be paired with a (much more pretty) Collet 4000 gallon tender.
     
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