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70013 KX - Scarborough 14th April

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by free2grice, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. Dragging brakes

    Dragging brakes New Member Account Suspended

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    Always on form old bean....
     
  2. Dragging brakes

    Dragging brakes New Member Account Suspended

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    Thanks for the plug, But I prefer 'realist' to 'hypocrite'....
     
  3. Dragging brakes

    Dragging brakes New Member Account Suspended

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    So you reckon, maybe you have a point, but I was looking at it from a point of view of someone trying to restore the ECML service back to some level of normality, with actual people wanting to actually go somewhere, you know, like airports, holidays, meetings, and all the other stuff passengers do, rather than some train going from somewhere to somewhere else and back again. I know what I would deal with first.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Perhaps in the open access agreement there is a clause saying that all TOCs and services are equal, but some are more equal than others.
     
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I think that's the point that Dragging Brakes is trying to make. But from the angle of priorities...and this is where he seems to think that some journeys are more important than others......I thought that there was probably only one family in the land who might have first call on the national rail network and they live some of the time in a big building up a long road in London. Not certain that those waiting at Peterborough last Saturday would like to be seen as second class travellers and included - IIRC - the head of a tour operator!
     
  6. Oakfield

    Oakfield Guest

    What everyone in a public service industry ( From the Chairman down) needs to remember is that it is the public who pay their wages. Hack off your consumers and they will go elsewhere.

    This is where Public ownership falls down as public servants (sic) think we are answerable to them and they are doing us a favour by providing any sort of 'service' and by selling off our industries to overseas owners their employees are answerable to the shareholders in the country of country of ownership not the consumers of their goods or services in the country of operation.

    Given that our railways are an unhealthy mixture of both of the above and you start to understand the deep rooted problems that beset them.
     
  7. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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    Its important not to confuse open access with equal access, which its never been about and certainly never will be at times of disruption. That said prioritising timetabled services over other's, especially long distance over charters, is just a common sense way of reducing the overall disruption and would happen regardless of how the industry is structured - they have the least effect on other trains and can make the time back, as was proved in this case.

    Chris
     
  8. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    The time made up was mostly down to quick work at the stops and, to be fair, some generosity in pathing by NR after Hull. But given that I understand it was NR who refused to allow a later than booked time passage through York and southwards, I'm not convinced they were helpful to those who wanted a decent stopover at Scarboro and steam back to York. The fact that it proved possible to get down from York in less than three and half hours rather than the scheduled 4, proved that some latitude was possible without affecting engineering works that people were told was the primary reason for the timing home.
     
  9. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    Perhaps so but they are considered antagonistic by some. There should be a level playing field, same rules all round.
     
  10. Dragging brakes

    Dragging brakes New Member Account Suspended

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    Some chance of that, I think hell would freeze over first....
     
  11. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Member

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    I hardly think NR can be blamed for having bigger priorities than being 'helpful to those who wanted a decent stopover at Scarboro and steam back to York', especially if it risks affecting other services, and i dont think beating the scheduled time by half an hour 'proves' anything controversial - sometimes timings between certain locations are too ambitious, other times too conservative, squeezed between paths for trains that are assumed to be running and on-time. Sometimes they even have to take into account paths for freight trains that only run on demand, and there's no guarantee that the engineering work planned in advance will start/finish or even take place when intended.

    There are just too many variables to say that a journey time achieved on the day can be offered in advance, but it does show that while charters can suffer at the hands of signallers they can benefit too.

    Chris
     
  12. Macko

    Macko Well-Known Member

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    I meant to post this earlier, I was going to send it off to the mags but as I am not one of the "known" names I find very difficult to get anything published in the steam mags :(
    A rare sight of a brit accelerating nicely under an NER roof at Filey, an hour down but making up time.

    [​IMG]
    Langtree Photography-7881.jpg by Langtree Photography
     
  13. Oakfield

    Oakfield Guest

    What a fantastic image!
     
  14. 46223

    46223 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Agreed!
     
  15. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Member

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    Stunning shot - well done :)
     
  16. Macko

    Macko Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the nice comments :)
     
  17. Guest

    Guest New Member Account Suspended

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    Exactly the alternative shot I wanted - but I went to Hunmanby for the sun which was so prominent at due time - and which departed five minutes before Cromwell arrived over an hour later.

    Congratulations - spot on!
     
  18. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    You will remember the issues over this trip when the train was parked outside Peterborough for over an hour while the network recovered from the power failure at Grantham. I have recently managed to force a comment out of Network Rail through their complaints procedure. It's a sobering read. The main conclusions I can draw from their response are:

    ** Charter trains are given a path. If they keep to that path...and on the day the rest of the system is running normally, then there will be no problems.
    ** If the system gets into a tangle (due to a major incident such as Grantham or if any other services are running late) then that path is forfeited and the charter is slotted in wherever there is a gap.
    ** In general, paths are not renegotiated at the last minute. So if an outward journey is delayed for whatever reason, then the return path will be expected to be followed. (as in the Grantham incident when time at destination was lost).

    This is more or less what we knew to be the case. The only sting in the tail is the inference that NR will consciously hold back 'on-time' charters for virtually anything else on the system that is running adrift. That really puts everyone in their place doesn't it? Not helpful for charters that are booked late back around midnight and then arrive at 00.45 when some last trains have gone, as with the Elizabethan, is it?
     
  19. Bifur01

    Bifur01 New Member

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    But it didnt stop it from being a great trip! We only lost a few miles of steam haulage from Scarborough to York.
     
  20. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Agree completely. But there was a wider point to test here. At least we all know where we stand and have to book these trips with that knowledge in mind.
     

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