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6201, her new lease of life.

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Sidmouth, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Very well put.
     
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  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    And given how much all that improves access in terms of more people enjoying the restored loco, I'd have thought fitting of such would strengthen an application to HLF or similar, not weaken it. The HLF are not as interested in 100% 1950s recreations as we are, their priorities are preserving heritage to enable as many people as possible to enjoy it today.
     
  3. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    I used the word vandalising because it was not necessary to take away anything from the original locomotives, just add the facility to work air braked trains.
     
  4. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    I'm with you on that, adapting a locomotive for air braked trains doesn't need to take anything away from the original, just add to it. It's not much more than adding TPWS and all the other electronic gear for working on the main line
     
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  5. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    True, they could leave the vacuum braking equipment in place, but it would just get in the way or (if functional) need to be maintained or both. Do you think water scoops should be retained?
     
  6. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Air braking really should have been made mandatory for all mainline steam locos at the very least they should be piped up, with a brake controller, so they can work an air braked train, even if air is provided by another loco, because everything else is air fitted on the network, Duel fitted locos is not something new either, several designs were so fitted from birth,
     
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  7. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Only if they relay the troughs.
     
  8. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I must admit that would be tremendous fun if it happened.
     
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  9. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    It was. When we tried to take 2968 back on the main line back in 2003 we paid a lot of money to have through air piping and an application valve fitted, but not a pump. It was one of the conditions.
     
  10. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Well-Known Member

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    Why should all locos have air brakes? Not all 'modern' trains can couple together. In fact, very few can with others outside of their own manufacturer.
     
  11. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    And that's a good thing!?! Not sure that is something we should aspire to!

    In fairness, most modern trains run on a set route with others of their type, which are capable of rescuing each other.

    Steam and diesel locos cross regions and could appear anywhere in the country. It would seem wise to maximise compatibility, not artificially limit it.
     
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  12. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    They don’t but when an engine comes up for overhaul I think it would be wise to future proof it by adding the facility to work air braked trains. That doesn’t mean changing the loco to air braking but adding an air pump and combined brake valve, there’s a bit more to it than that but if an engine comes off the main line it’s all reversible.
     
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  13. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Because there’s hardly a plethora of dual or Vac braked locos knocking around on the Network? Think back to 2012 when West Coast (yes, those at 10A again) had not one but 2 Brush 4’s fail with their train on the level crossing at Swineshead blocking the road for several hours before the nearest vac braked loco (which I believe was at York) could come to the rescue.
    Would you say something like that’s not a bad reason to continue with Vac brakes?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2024
  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Because, that way, if a loco fails, and it does not have a rescue close at hand, ie on the back of the train, it's stranded, and it adds flexibility, at the moment only a handful of locos can operate an air braked set of coaches, if that's all that's available, allowing for wash outs and Maintenace, should something go wrong, you're in trouble, until such time as west coast get enough coaches through the door locking modifications, they need to at least fit a couple of their home fleet with airbrakes, so they have cover for Tangmere, 60103 or one of rileys 5's suddenly becoming non available.
     
  15. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I'm confused by the multiple negatives. I assume you mean that such an incident is a bad reason to continue with Vac brakes.
     
  16. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    And air brakes don’t fail?
     
  17. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    They do. But when (and it is a "when") they do, getting them out of the way is much easier than the now unusual vac brakes.

    @Johnb raises valid points about the implications of different approaches to installing air brakes, but it surprises me to see NR continue to permit them.

    If ever NR do get their act together on coupling compatibility (and there are much more serious compatibility issues on the network that vac braked steam), then I'd expect brake compatibility to be in their sights too.
     
  18. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Not saying they don’t.
     
  19. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    There is a also a business decision here, there is currently a number of Vac only steam locos based both at 10A (& elsewhere) with no work, due to the inability to work air braked stock.
     
  20. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree, it's terrible to be honest. I've been on 5-car GWR IET services that should've been 10 but nobody from Hitachi has been there to couple them! That's the contract!

    The point I was making was that steam locos not having air brakes suddenly doesn't make them not unlike virtually everything else on the network when it comes to being rescued.
     

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