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60163 Real or Replica?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Huff Puff, Jul 21, 2009.

  1. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    You could apply those same circumstances to the GCR 8Ks and LMS 8Fs that were built by NBL for the ROD/WD.
     
  2. spindizzy

    spindizzy Member

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    Using the same logic, Tornado is a rebuild A4 with that chime whistle
     
  3. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Lol!! Happily the A1 Trust do not have to avoid their machine being regarded as a new build!
     
  4. John Elliot Jnr

    John Elliot Jnr Well-Known Member

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    You could apply those same circumstances to the GCR 8Ks and LMS 8Fs that were built by NBL for the ROD/WD.[/quote:hel5wtk2]

    The big difference being that the locomotives you describe were contemporary machines built to haul trains as part of a transport system, just as the original A1's were. Tornado is a one-off, historic curiosity built by enthusiasts for the heritage leisure business.
     
  5. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    You could apply those same circumstances to the GCR 8Ks and LMS 8Fs that were built by NBL for the ROD/WD.[/quote:3uq7c0u3]
    The big difference being that the locomotives you describe were contemporary machines built to haul trains as part of a transport system, just as the original A1's were. Tornado is a one-off, historic curiosity built by enthusiasts for the heritage leisure business.[/quote:3uq7c0u3]
    Good point, but its all about interpretation; it could also be said that Tornado was built by an engineering works in Darlington to haul passenger trains on the main line, with not a word of a lie in that statement!!
     
  6. JMR

    JMR New Member

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    Tornado is every inch a living , breathing example of a stephensonian steam locomotive. And a fine example at that.That is all that matters. It needs no further characterisation or pigeon-holing (IMHO of course :) ).
     
  7. John Elliot Jnr

    John Elliot Jnr Well-Known Member

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    You could apply those same circumstances to the GCR 8Ks and LMS 8Fs that were built by NBL for the ROD/WD.[/quote:1zft66ep]
    The big difference being that the locomotives you describe were contemporary machines built to haul trains as part of a transport system, just as the original A1's were. Tornado is a one-off, historic curiosity built by enthusiasts for the heritage leisure business.[/quote:1zft66ep]
    Good point, but its all about interpretation; it could also be said that Tornado was built by an engineering works in Darlington to haul passenger trains on the main line, with not a word of a lie in that statement!![/quote:1zft66ep]

    An engineering works that was instigated solely to build this one locomotive, you mean. I agree, it's all about interpretation, and my interpretation is that in no sense can Tornado be seen as a 'production' locomotive. Nor do I understand why anyone would want to promote is as such. To claim that it is could give the impression that getting it built was merely a matter of raising the money to buy one off the production line. As we all know, it was far, far more complicated than that.
     
  8. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Just as much as the disneyland castle is real...
    It's a replica..
    There both built to serve the tourist market by providing something that isnt immediately available and is a close recreation.
     
  9. 40044

    40044 New Member

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    Yes logically its A1/2
     
  10. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    \:D/ A rare event indeed. :smt023 60163? I went up to Hopkinson Lane a couple of times during construction, just to marvel at the engineering skills that were going into that thing. If people want to call it a replica.........fine. If people want to call it a new build........fine. Doesn't matter one jot either way.
     
  11. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    How can it be a replica when it has got completely different boiler technology, ie welded instead of riveted.[/quote:1vbum3m6]
    I never said it was an authentic replica! :)[/quote:1vbum3m6]

    :smt087 C'mon, just for an old man, what is "an authentic replica"? 8-[
     
  12. Just to throw another word into the pot, the one I use for it is 'facsimile'.

    Although it really doesn't matter in the slightest what people call it. Surely we all have far more important things to worry about?! #-o
     
  13. Stu in Torbay

    Stu in Torbay Part of the furniture

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    I would say that every locomotive after the first in a type is a replica. To use the alternative word with the same meaning "Reproduction" is more descriptive, in that it suggests repeat production.
    So for example GWR King No. 6000 was an original, the other 29 were replicas or reproductions. So with 60163 its the same, 60114 was the original, all the rest were replicas. The fact that there was a large span of time between the last one and this one I would say is irrelevant, so are the modifications (boiler etc.) as the locomotive is very largely an A1 design, and as someone said earlier, if a batch of them were made ( \:D/ ) you could always add a sub-class to identify the mods, as is the norm in the Rail industry.
     
  14. conireland

    conireland Member

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    What was 71000 then?
     
  15. porous pot

    porous pot New Member

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    A completely different beast all together. Probably the only similarity is the number of wheels! No doubt the technically minded will be able to quote differences in boiler, cylinders, wheel size, tractive effort, power class, etc, etc, etc.
     
  16. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk New Member Account Suspended

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    It's a replica.


    That is all.
     
  17. IKB

    IKB Member

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    I think Huff Puff should be congratulated for coming up with a topic that has generated the most responses in the shortest time, over 50 in around 24 hours, not bad!
     
  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The only Class 8P BR 4-6-2 built. Three cylinders as against two for a Britannia for starters. Rotary cam poppet valves as opposed to Walschaerts gear and piston valves, double chimney as against single chimney, 8P as against 7MT. Haven't sufficient info to hand to quite all the differences but 71000 was no Britannia.
     
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The dictionary definition of a replica : "An exact copy or model of something, especially on a smaller scale."
    Well 60163 isn't an exact copy of the earlier A1s so I reckon that discounts the replica theory.
     
  20. 5596

    5596 Member Account Suspended

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    Yawn! - Rivet Counters ](*,)
     

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