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35018 on RTC Cumbrian Mountain Expresses

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 1020 Shireman, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    On this year's heavier loaded CMEs there was talk on the train about BIL doing 'the opposite' of most locomotives in as much as we all remembered just how quick the first CME was in 2018, a run nowhere near matched since. It was also the one and only non-stop run from Carlisle to Hellifield, something else that has been discussed at length since 60163's extraordinary non-stop run of the 22nd May with load 13.

    We've done 5 CMEs with BIL, and indeed the 11 coach 12th May 2018 was by far the quickest all day. The 'non-qualifying' Load 11 Blue Riband time was 16m 36.31s. The next quickest of the 3 11 coach runs was 21m 46.13. The run of the 26th June with load 12 was only 11 seconds slower than that at 21m 57.18s.

    Looking back at my timing sheets It's a bit obvious I didn't take timing as seriously in 2018. Partly this was because I often had to stand in the middle window that doesn't give as good a position or panoramic view for milepost spotting as being seated milepost side does. From 2019, Kelly at RTC has kindly allowed me to book as 2 couples, with seats '4 across' in a 4+4 bay in a TSO so that I have a window seat on the milepost side all day. Since then I've managed to 'spot' the great majority of mileposts on every train. The CME requires a change of sides at Carlisle if the stock remains platformed, and at Hellifield.

    Have attached a pdf file with the 5 runs for Carlisle to Appleby, this years affected by the Armathwaite tsr; Appleby to Ais Gill and Wilpshire Bank.

    Not that representative of 35018's carer over the S&C in particular as we haven't travelled on any of the Dalesman/Pendle Dalesman trains when the big Merchant performed better. Not seen any full logs of those runs unfortunately.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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  3. Jeremy English

    Jeremy English Member

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    Are you suggesting there may be an issue with BIL? I ask as I have just seen your post after returning from a morning of chasing the engine on its home metals. Despite an incredibly slack schedule, problems associated with broken rails at Micheldever, being held at Millbrook for a while, although there was nothing in front of her, these only accounted for a 39 minute late arrival at Bournemouth after which she lost a great deal more time, arriving 88 minutes late at Weymouth even though she had a clear road ahead of her from Winchester and - surprisingly - didn't appear to be worked hard at all to trying make up the losses.

    I'm sure there must be good reasons for all this and hope the return tonight will see some fireworks!
     
  4. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Nope. Just telling it like it's been from my experiences of 35018 'up north'. Really dynamic first run in 2018 and nothing close since.
     
  5. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Interesting Ian. My GPX files are a bit erratic compared to hand timing which is why I don't quote them on NP. Like Mike Motley I firmly believe the GPS is only there for instant speeds.
     
  6. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    But you have to look at what's behind as well as in front. Given the water stop at Beaulieu Rd, they definitely needed to be overtaken at Millbrook, and given the whole timetable was up the spout with trains diverted via Fareham and very late, it was reasonable for them to be overtaken by the two at Poole. The running today says nothing about the loco one way or the other. It does say something about the capacity of a two track line when it all goes pear shaped.
     
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  7. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    I'd certainly agree that gpx files are no match for a stopwatch and mileposts. My own experience of gps is they are accurate to within about 10 metres (unless they loose signal through tunnels etc), so that will give you several seconds and few mph inaccuracy. In short, a good indicator guide.
     
  8. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    I travelled on the Dalesman on 8/5/18, the Tuesday before the CME run. We were delayed at Carlisle with a brake problem on one of the coaches and left 11 mins late. If I recall, this was BIL's first outing of the year on the S and C and was driven northbound well within itself--26 mins Settle Jn to Blea Moor box-- but southbound, Driver Blair and Fireman Soames were given the nod to push a bit harder. My recollection is that it was dry out to Appleby but wet going up Mallerstang.

    I am only an amateur and only have times at stations etc, but this run, with 12 on bears comparison with, but a bit slower than the run a few days later. It was also non-stop through Appleby.


    Petteril Bridge 4.02
    Howe and Co 12.28
    Low House 17.24
    Armathwaite 19.05
    Lazonby 24.55
    Langwathby 29.42
    Culgaith SB 33.38
    Kirkby Thore 36.40
    APPLEBY 41.55
    Crosby Garrett51.42
    KS 56.26
    AIS GILL 67.32

    Blue Riband time was probably about 22 mins. Standing at the window of coach three, the power going up Mallerstang was memorable.

    Maybe @Oswald T Wistle has a few more to throw in the basket.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  9. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Member Friend

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    Sorry to disappoint Peter but BIL never seemed to be on the front when I travelled, except the trip shown green on the link to Ian’s website. A very good run with, from memory, Steve Chipperfield driving and Martyn Soames firing.
     
  10. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    One point about the run to Weymouth on Sat 3rd July: the crew would have known they were likely to be delayed because of the single-line working, but not by how much nor where they'd be stopped. They may well have been cautious about water and coal consumption. How easy is it to keep a bright-enough fire, avoiding it clinkering up and not blowing off? I saw the outward run near Oakley and the return at Lockerley. In the morning, the loco was doing little more than coasting as she passed me. In the evening, the loco sounded much more exciting ;-)
     
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  11. Jeremy English

    Jeremy English Member

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    Would agree, in the evening she seemed much more alive; I was at Dean Hill crossing so experienced the same as you! I then got to Andover where she raced through but made little sound - I suspect that being limited to 60mph at a place where the Merchants regularly exceeded 90 on relatively level track means she doesn't have to work hard at all down here. And that was really the gist of what I was getting at when I commented about the lack of any real evidence of working hard, a Merchant can do these trips without any excertion.
     
  12. Will RL

    Will RL Member

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    Wasn’t limited to 60mph. The limiting factor on the Laverstock - Worting section was the proceeding service train and long sections.
     
  13. Jeremy English

    Jeremy English Member

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    It was timed for 60.
     
  14. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Timed for 60mph means timed for a loco limited to 60mph, as a Black 5 was one loco scheduled to do one of the runs, BIL is a 75mph loco and would use that speed if and when conditions allowed in order to regain lost time.
     
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  15. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Always fun the threads on WGO. Got thread drift of 275 miles or thereabouts on this one.
     
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  16. gricerdon

    gricerdon Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know if the rumour that 35018 is now allowed 80 mph max is correct? James Shuttleworth this may be one for you?

    Thanks

    Don
     

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