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34051 Winston Churchill

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by green five, Oct 22, 2014.

  1. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    That tends to imply that there is the intention to deceive.
     
  2. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Is it? So every preserved loco that has had new parts manufactured - especially the non ferrous stuff - is running around with "fake" bits?
     
  3. dan.lank

    dan.lank Member

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    Do whistles, injectors and cab window frames normally wear out?
     
  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    In respect of Bulleid injectors, the answer is yes!
     
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  5. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    We've had to replace the cab window frames on 34081 after new ones were fitted back in 1998 so I'd say yes they do need replacing from time to time.
     
  6. Lplus

    Lplus Member

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    Hmm, you are making them for a loco that you intend to show in a museum in concourse condition. You have not even implied that the loco will ever be steamed again and I find it hard to believe the NRM would start selling off the good bits and replacing them with worn parts once it is on display. So, I agree that nothing is impossible, but it really seems highly unlikely at this point. Thus as far as the preservation world is concerned they are lost to active use for the forseeable future. Bearing in mind the age of a lot of preservationists, that is forever, so perhaps you could forgive me for using the word "never" in this context.
     
  7. goldfish

    goldfish Resident of Nat Pres

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    Well except it's not correct, is it? 'In my lifetime' would be more correct. Many projects are started that not all the initiators will live to see the result of. In this case, the NRM is using the funds available for the task in hand to the best of its ability - restoring an artefact that has value beyond its ability to pull a train around that *might* at *some point in the future* also pull a train around.

    I doubt many people interested in funding that restoration would be overly keen on cross-subsidising other projects (particularly at the more 'professional'/'commercial' end of the heritage steam market).

    Simon
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2014
  8. Lplus

    Lplus Member

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    Ok, fine - how about "almost certainly never"
    Depends how much they cost to make and how much they sold them for. NRM could be onto a nice little earner there
     
  9. Anthony Coulls

    Anthony Coulls Member

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    If we could make money out of it, I can assure you that we would have done it by now.
     
  10. martin butler

    martin butler Member

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    No one has said that 34051 will NEVER steam again;) its just not in the NRM's plans at the moment, in the future who knows, any extra work done now could well enhance any further restoration , if you dont have to overhaul verious fittings, so i dont think the plan is for any part of 34051 to be sold on , ok, some may get "borrowed" if a working pacific breaks something, and needs a short term replacement, but at least the loco will go back on display looking like a complete loco, down to the minor details, which looking at the york picture she was not back then, but, in light of that, how long had she been at York, so why didnt the missing items get replaced and things like the missing window frames get sorted out by the museum? its as if the former management didnt exactly want to invest to much time and expence on the loco.
     
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  11. Hurricane

    Hurricane Member

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    At the end of the day we should all be happy, the past wrongs are currently being put right.

    The other thing we can say is as this is a Ropley Job, the job will be done well!
     
  12. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, and whilst not criticising the comment, that is also true of nearly everywhere else, is it not, or we wouldn't have the number of heritage locomotives in active service that are out there currently.
     
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  13. Hurricane

    Hurricane Member

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    I didn't mean that as diss against any other railway, just stating the fact she will be in fine fettle come January.
     
  14. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Member

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    All I can say is that those belly-aching about the future use or disuse of the new parts really don't get it. As I understand it, the money spent on the cosmetic overhaul was raised specifically for this project by the Southern Branch of the FNRM, and not out of an NRM 'general fund'. The project has therefore been supported by those who want to see the locomotive looking its best once again, and not hiding in a dark corner of the museum, as was previously the case. What is absolutely clear is that all those who remember the tired condition of the locomotive in Station Hall will have grounds for high praise for what is being done. Furthermore, and whenever finances permit, the future-proofing of a locomotive with potential is the sensible thing to do.
     
  15. Hampshire Unit

    Hampshire Unit Well-Known Member Friend

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    Those of you who were able to visit "Winnie" in the carriage shed at Ropley last weekend will be able to testify how good the loco is starting to look. Having watched her progress from a rather tired looking loco in Alresford cattle dock to a semi-naked one in Ropley yard to the nearly finished product now, I think the NRM will be very pleased. If funding has been available to manufacture some new "working" parts without detracting from other projects then that can only be a good thing surely? Who knows what might happen in the future.
     
  16. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Up thread I questioned the wisdom of making fully functional new components whose innards will certainly be neither seen by visitors nor used in the near future and may or may not ever be used. I am partially persuaded by the last few posts, though I still wonder whether the money and time could more usefully have been divided between a cosmetic restoration with just the visible outer parts and some other project.
     
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  17. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Resident of Nat Pres

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    I really can't believe the complaining on here!

    The work on 34051 is funded by donations made by people who knew the plans for cosmetic overhaul. would they have donated to produce "fake" missing parts? Would they have donated the money saved to another project if this one only wanted "fake" parts? Would it even be cheaper to "fake" some fittings than buy them from the industry suppliers who would have patterns etc. from making them for other preserved Bulleids?

    I could understand people complaining if cosmetic mock-up parts had been used - "the NRM is meant to be a museum, but what does the "Disneyland mock-up" assembled around the remains of 34051 tell anyone?" - you can just see it, can't you!

    So what if there are no immediate plans to steam the loco - at least some of the costs of doing so in future - having a full set of workable fittings - have now been met, making any future restoration cheaper and hence more likely - and by a public appeal that hasn't as far as I am aware had to dip into any cash other than from those who wanted to give it - nothing from central NRM funds.

    All proves - in this game, you can't win!

    Steven
     
  18. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Member

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    As far as I'm concerned, the same argument that I used with 92220 applies here as far as running is concerned - there are several other air-smoothed Light Pacifics in operation, so just what would be achieved by going to the expense and effort of restoring 34051 to working order? I think that she'll be an absolute credit to all involved when she emerges from Ropley & returns to York, but as with 92220, we should let the head overrule the heart with regard to "Winnie".
     
  19. Lplus

    Lplus Member

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    Someone got out of bed the wrong side.

    One person expresses an opinion that it's a shame that complex new items are being made that will not be used "in the forseeable future" - one other person tends to agree and suddenly you're screaming about it? Perspective, sir, Perspective...
     
  20. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    The objectives of the Group paying for this restoration will be fulfilled. Those who contributed to the project knew what was on offer for their money and that is what they will get.
    It is always assumed that everyone can get to see a restored working locomotive in action: that is not so, in many cases a video will be all they see.
    Now a static display, which also includes lots more to see and do (such as the NRM) will have, I believe, more interest for young children than an object travelling past them at speed. These children are, hopefully, the future.
    Sometimes preservation movements are rather like some forms of politics or religions. Fine, providing you do it my way! ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014

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