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2020 Winter Cumbrian Mountain Expresses

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by mike1522, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    Thought about doing a Kendalino video of the virtual tour but you could bet plenty wouldn’t get what my YouTube video actually meant sadly although I’m open to a said project if folk think it’s a good idea.
     
  2. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    Anything is a good idea at the moment Steve .Go for it !
     
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  3. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    VDHP is notoriously difficult to estimate being virtually any figure you care to choose but I have estimated the edhp values if the train had actually run as loaded and at the speeds I suggested.

    60009 Shap (MP31.5 to MP37.25) Average edhp around 1500
    46115 Ais Gill (MP275 to MP259.75) Average edhp around 1250
    46115 Wilpshire (Whalley to Ramsgreave & Wilpshire) Average edhp around 1600
     
  4. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Can you do a reverse calculation to determine the EDHP for say 46115 climbing Ais Gill and doing the last couple of miles to the summit at 50 mph?
     
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    The Railway Performance Society has an EXCEL spreadsheet for calculating drawbar horsepower.
     
  6. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    On 12 May 2018 35018 hauled the CME, @1020 Shireman posted a log of (exceptional) times and speeds. Using Graham's info; MP275 - 60.2mph, MP259.75 - 52.9mph and a time between the two points of 16m 53s gives an average edhp of around 1850 (using the RPS spreadsheet as Al mentions). With our virtual train (lighter) and running slower to just hold 50mph at the summit 46115 would have had to produce an average edhp of almost 1600; this would be greater than the loco could sustain for the 17-18 mins that the climb would take. With a full boiler, full pressure and a good fire SG might just have been able to sustain 1600 for the much shorter time required to climb Wilpshire - but only just and probably not.
     
  7. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    As promised 60009 & 46115 on the CME . Not perfect but you get the idea.

     
  8. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Lovely stuff, like the engine and coach move at the start.
     
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  9. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Thank you for that, it was just something that came to mind and I thought it would be interesting to see if it was possible, I guess if the load were gradually reduced then the point would come when she could maintain that speed.
     
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  10. Fulwood Flyer

    Fulwood Flyer Member

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    Continuing the recent 'fantasy' theme, a view of 35018 and 46115 actually running around an hour apart, but appearing to be using the same 'path' over Shap on the busy West Coast route.

    MONTAGEMONOV4.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  11. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Now now, that's very naughty, remember when a certain video appeared showing a similar thing, there were all sorts of experts who wondered how this was allowed.
    Not sure if I can recall who did it.;)
     
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  12. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    LOL sure Peter can "relate" to that;)
     
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  13. Fulwood Flyer

    Fulwood Flyer Member

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    The camera cannot lie, the cameraman however...
     
  14. Fulwood Flyer

    Fulwood Flyer Member

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    I like your theory of ‘relativity’ Henry!
     
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  15. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    And some of us who should have known better were taken in for a while.
     
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  16. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    Not quite the same but there wasn’t much distance between 45699 and 70000 on Shap this day.

     
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  17. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    The sound from the Britannia sequence definitely took me back to my childhood, thinking ' I wish I could...I think I can...I knew I could!'
     
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  18. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

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    The other strange thing about this day of course (apart from us seriously delaying the Brits ascent of Shap) was that as we were not allowed in to Carlisle due to ECML diversions and our water stop at Sellafield was in the loop not the platform, so most of the CCE passengers got to see more of the Brit (when we watered next to each other in Upperby Yard) than they did of their own loco. Long day on the train if you were a Euston passenger, around 16.5 hours I think.
     
  19. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    At Salterwath before the Brit eased off DSC_0821eg.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2020
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  20. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    Think on hindsight I should’ve done Shap Summit as the sound must’ve been fantastic as one passed the summit and 70000 barked away towards the summit :)
     

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