2010 'TORBAY EXPRESS'

Alberta. Why? Because many linesiders also ride the trains from time to time. So they are customers as well.

This is one of the parts of the UK steam scene that has stopped me investing in any significant project here, as I mentioned on another thread.

Not that I wasn't expecting to meet it after all the wonderful fun I had in Germany as a linesider, train rider, contributing loco group member etc etc. I'd sometimes meet other guys from the UK who, when they found out that my only interest at the time was German steam, told me what I could expect here. "Cliquey", "elitist", "us and them" etc etc.

I know it's not universal, but it's enough to deter me from committing myself to investing long term in a chosen cause.

So come on Alberta, please think of who those linesiders are train riders from time to time, Heritage Line Railway members, loco owning group members, contributors to related causes when the hat comes round, etc, etc.

 

I go on hundreds of railtours,and NEVER would expect the tour company to tell me whats happening whhen i am lineside,linesider's are the last who need to know whats happening. Fair enough requesting that other passengers/linesiders give info but the tour company. Come on. I have had this potential problem many times,and am just grateful to those who have let me know what's happening,otherwise we would of travelled down all the way from Wakefield. I would of been pretty annoyed if the tour company had told someone stood at Cogload junction that the train was hauled by a 67 before they told a passenger!

I always try and inform (via the yahoo groups),i dont use these systems because A.the forum won't work on my phone and B.I can't afford to pay for the texts.

Don't think i don't wish for linesider's to not know,if i am linesiding i go out regardless,until i hear something different on a yahoo group,or i get a text,if i am out on the lineside i inform the other people there,if i am on the train i let those i know are on lineside what is happening.

I always feel that when i am lineside i should expect the unexpected and that i don't feel i should be particularly annoyed if say the train is late,or it's a different loco,that is because on that particular day i have contributed nothing to the running of the tour....

The tour company should only need to tell the customers,paying on that day,not someone who went on 50 other trips but not that one or even works on support crew. Normally they will have someone else to tell them anyway??

 

Can you suggest how the TE organisers were supposed to have informed the linesiders it was a 67? Do they have these people's e-mails and phone numbers to hand? I was out chasing 6233 today and if there had been a problem I would have relied on the jungle telegraph for info, not the organisers. Not that RTC would have known I was out and how to get hold of me anyway. Please be a bit more realistic when criticising the UK steam movement. I was over
in Germany for DB175 and there were cancellations, delays etc. One particular incident was the scheduled goods with the 52 on the final day. It never ran but nobody told me nor any of the other participants I spoke to and I don't blame them one bit. David did his level best but the info he was given was so sketchy as to be of little real value so it's not all sweetness and light in der Vaterland.

 

Bryan. Not all linesiders are train riders, contributors etc, a lot are joe public whose main contribution is to trespass and cause delays to service trains as well as the railtour concerned. The delays caused to 71000 on the Midland Tornado tour around the Corby and Kettering area being one example as was Tornados first trip down the ECML to Kings Cross.

Dave B

 

Many enthusiasts in the west country check out South West Rail Gen for their information. David Randles posted
news that the Torbay Express was to be diesel hauled on SWRG early this morning. Well done David. <BJ>

 

Many people who go out to see the Torbay Express, especially along the south Devon sea wall, are the Joe Public families. Some of the families will then make enquiries
about the train and then travel on it. That's why the vast majority of the TE passengers are Mr and Mrs Joe Public. No Mr and Mrs Joe Public, no Torbay Express. <BJ>

 

I think the above comments re linesiders etc only confirm my understanding of the nature of a number of the people involved in the UK steam scene.

I'll continue to stay on the sidelines here and as soon as I can handle it, I'll start getting back into the German steam scene.

 

The ONLY resposnsibiliy a rail tour operator has in these circumstances is to the paying passenger - end of!

 

Its true that the only contractual responsibility a rail tour operator has it to its paying passengers (well assuming we don't get into wider issues like its responsibilities to be safe etc on the railway!) but nothing operates in a vacuum. I know locally that when stories/pictures have appeared in the local press about steam hauled tours that have passed through, the comments have included ones asking how to find out when these trains are coming through - often in the line of "I've got small children and would love to let them see it". That raises two possibilities for tour operators - firstly those familes may be future business who maybe can't find the tour operators, don't know how much a tour would cost etc, and secondly those children maybe future customers if they get a taste for it (OK so its probably long term investment). There may be commercial PR advantages therefore to providing greater information - families/public who turn out to see a train and then find its running massively late or under diesel with no explanation may gain the conclusion that tours are chaotic and risky to spend money on.

Also for all the true comment about it being paying customers who enable the tour to operate, it is surely nonsense to suggest that by restricting the availability of information people will decide not to go lineside to take photos but will book a ticket instead. For example living in Bath I quite often go out to see trains starting in London and ending in Bath/Bristol etc - the reality is that I'm extremely unlikely ever to book a ticket on one of those trains (CathEx or VSOE) simply because it seems daft to do a double trip each way in order to enjoy a tour coming to my home city (and that's as an enthusiast so Joe Public is even less likely to do it). That being the case holding back information isn't going to boost ticket sales - however the smart money might be use the passing tour to publicise future tours starting in that area. Classic example being the recent VSOE tour operated in conjunction with Railway Touring Co, could have been an ideal chance for them to publicise their Weymouth tours starting from Bristol and Bath. Similarly but maybe a bit cheekier would be for the Torbay Express people to have had a couple of reps on say Bath stations (more likely Oldfield Park which has open access) handing out leaflets as the VSOE or CathEx tours came through.

Put simply the operators don't have to do anything differently but whilst trespass may be an issue, there may also be advantages to them in thinking outside the box. Its clear no one is making a fortune out of mainline tours so cheap extra publicity that might generate more bookings could be worth thinking about.

 

That is not the issue I was addressing.

Most "hard core" enthusiasts have their own network of information and find out very quickly what is happening to whatever train they have chosen to photograph on any particular day. We/they are a very self sufficient bunch of individuals who use modern communication technology very effectively.

The issue I was addressing was that related to "non contributors" by those who on any particular day have chosen to "lineside" rather than actually travel on a train. It could equally apply to those who prefer to just join a loco owning group or a Heritage railway etc, but not go beyond that stage.

It is the contempt, for use of a better word, that a minority, (but a significant minority), of people here on Nat Pres constantly show for such enthusiasts that concerns me. You will find it on quite a few of the threads, and from my personal reading of the situation it does sometimes come from those more closely involved in Heritage etc work than others are, (not always).

That does not take away the fact that within the UK Heritage/Steam scene there are a very good number of active people who fully recognise and respect the full value of their fellow enthusiasts. Fellow enthusiasts who may not be anywhere near as active as themselves. I have met such people here, on the lineside and on board trains. From Nat Pres alone I could fill an entire thread with their names!

Anyway. This is a thread about the Torbay Express and should get back to that. If this debate needs to continue it should be done on a dedicated thread and not here.

There you go, I'm moderating myself! About bl..dy time too, some of you will say. And with good reason! LOL!

 

Indeed. Siezed bearings maybe? Whatever it is, it sounds expensive...

 

Bryan,
You still haven't answered the question as to just how the organisers were supposed to have informed those on the lineside. Dedicated gricers will have access to various forums and groups such as this and there is always the "jungle telegraph" for those not so technologically savvy but as far as the casual observer is concerned, I can't see how the TE organisers, or any other organiser, can possibly tell these people that there's been a last minute change of plan. I don't honestly think it's a case of not wanting to, more of a case of not having the means.
Just out of interest, how would news of a late failure of a loco be conveyed to linesiders in Germany? My experience is that it's just the same as over hear - the "jungle telegraph" in it's various forms.

 

No. I haven't answered that question because it wasn't the issue I was concerned about and not the one I was addressing.

Because, IMHO, that sort of information is not the responsibility of the Tour Promoter to promulgate to a wider audience in such circumstances as with the TBEL. The "hard core" enthusiast finds out very quickly anyway via all sorts of routes. In the UK, Germany, South Africa. Virtually anywhere such steam operations exist.

And so far as the Casual Enthusiast or Joe Public who just turns up to see a steam train. My experience of the last three years is that it is highly likely there will be a hard core enthusiast near the location and word will spread rapidly. If not, then they either wait and see nothing or a see a box hauled train. Sad, but I doubt it will spoil their day.

Now back to TBEL. When is the Duke going to be coming back? I'm wanting a run behind that loco this year.

 

What I heard yesterday is that she is going into the workshop this week, I think they said Thursday, to investigate. The flat on the rear truck is a bit of a mystery right now since the wheels aren't braked, nor do they use chocks on them when stationary because the injector overflows are right next to them, therefore it most likely hasn't been moved with a chock still in place. So they have two issues to sort out - what caused the flat and is it an ongoing problem (eg a siezed bearing, axle problems, etc), plus what remedial action is needed on the wheel, can it be skimmed or is a bigger repair needed.

So at the moment the answer is unknown, but it might be clearer at the end of the week.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood you. I thought you were countering the person who said it wasn't the operator's duty to inform the linesiders.
In my experience the vast majority of enthusiasts will pass on any info they have regarding a tour's progress, change of plans etc. There will always be those who keep such info to themselves of course but that's life I'm afraid and I certainly don't let such selfish behaviour cloud my judgement of the preservation movement as a whole.

 

Can we have a rule please that says if there is more than a couple of to's and fro's between posters on some finer point about their postings that it be taken off-line and continue as PM's? I have wasted some of my valuable lunch break trawling through the dross in the last few pages of this thread to find out some truths about what happened/is happening with DoG

 

My lips are now sealed.

But unfortunately that hasn't stopped my fingers from typing!

 

In this and other threads, I like the clarifications that sometimes resolve an issue and sometimes demonstrate a different perspective. If a thread is long, using advanced search and the date parameter makes it easy to find the recent gen.