P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

Any chance you can put the slides/whatever up online for those who can't attend? [The online version can contain material you couldn't fit in the live presentation, hint, hint :-].

Noel

 

Yes that would be very nice...

 

In addition to the archive footage shown at the convention, Andy has also been busy finding other movie footage.

Foxy

 

Timken have now joined the party with generous sponsorship of the roller bearings:

http://www.p2steam.com/news/current-news/71-roller-bearings-ordered-for-no-2007

Foxy

 

Any chance you can tell them its a 4-8-4 you;re building and send the spares onto the Clan project please...

 

A new mailshot just received, appealing for funding for the boiler, says "The boiler is the beating heart of a steam locomotive …". I can just about accept likening it to a heart, but I'm very dubious about "beating". If any part of a locomotive can be said to beat like a heart, surely it's the "engine", which even includes valves like a heart. Or perhaps the air pump(s)?

 

i'd be very wary of a beating boiler I must admit

 

Well it is big and expensive. But it sure is not the heart of a locomotive.

I wonder which road the Trust is going to take on this boiler? What is essentially a copy of that fitted to Tornado or something more modern?

 

Strongly suspect the Latter, perhaps you could write to them pointing out the potential for improvement ? .... (... hello!)

 

Methinks someone is confusing anatomy, engineering and marketing! They're not the same thing, you know

Tom

 

Will the design and certification for Tornado's boiler be applicable to the P2 if they use the same boiler design? if so there is a saving to be made by using the same type. Not sure how much money and time would be saved though.

 

One would expect so, and i think a few lessons learnt on the staying may be put into practice on boiler no 2. If Blue Peters boiler is considered uneconomical / too lengthy a job to repair perhaps it might be worth asking Meiningen for a Bogoff !"

 

Is that why it's going back to Meiningen again?

 

I think/believe, the idea is for the makers want to have a look at how the boiler has faired after a number of years in service.

 

Hmmm - im sure a more likely story is that if Meiningen undertake the overhaul works on the boiler then there cannot be an us and them debate if something fails or went wrong.

Tbh with a boiler only 5 years old Meiningen have a massive responsibility for some of the issues that have been occurring on the boiler and I believe must be picking up the tab for some of the remedial works.

 

The P2 leaflet says

• Interchangeable with Tornado boiler
• Tornado boiler is 17in shorter than P2 boiler - No 2007's smokebox will be extended within the cladding
• 250psi of No 60163's boiler will be retained to improve economy and increase maximum power

 

What you believe, and what the actuality is, are not necessarily the same thing.

 

Bearing in mind the amount of trouble with the boiler for 3801 a check to see that the boiler supplied to the A1 Trust is performing well would be encouraging.

I do not believe that the new boiler will be of modern specification but it will be welded version of the traditional type still using flanged plates, or rather constructed to look as though they were flanged.

If they did want a traditional construction the boiler provided for 4472 is close to being a new build and shows that it can be done. At a price.

 

But they are using smaller bore cylinders so with driving wheel diameter and piston stroke being fixed as on the original the only way to maintain the T.E. figure was to increase the boiler pressure. As to power output, well, the cylinder and valve design is not settled yet and T.E. is no real guide to what might be achieved in terms of ihp.

 

All the facts are on the P2 website. "Although the original class had 220lb/sq in boilers the overall size is identical to the diagram 118A 250lb/sq in boiler fitted to No. 60163, thus giving the option to inter-change this component at overhauls. Although the internal design is slightly different to No. 2001's boiler, the precedent was set by No. 2006 Wolf of Badenoch which had a boiler with a firebox combustion chamber. The P2 varied in some regards to the A1 in the area of the ashpan and grate, but these would for servicing advantages and manufacturing simplicity follow those on the A1."

"During a recent visit to Meiningen in connection with the intermediate overhaul of Tornado's boiler, further work was done to examine improvements and minor modifications which will be applied to the boiler for Prince of Wales. More detailed 3D design work has been done on the smokebox to modify it to suit the shorter Tornado boiler. The original Gresley class P2 locomotives were fitted with Robinson type superheaters where the elements are fitted to the header using a special tube expander through cover plates on the front of the header. The elements are difficult to change individually. The post war locomotives were fitted the Melesco type superheater header where the elements are clamped onto the header using tee bolts and clamp bars which eliminates the access covers on the header. The Melesco design is also superior in that the wet (inlet) and dry (outlet) manifolds are almost completely separate with air spaces between them. This reduces to the tendency of the heat in the outlet manifold conducting through to the inlet side. A 3D model has been drawn of the Melesco header fitted to Tornado to check that it will fit in the P2 smokebox - and it does! This is useful as we can use Tornado's pattern equipment although a small modification will be needed to provide for 2 anti-vacuum valves which are on the upper sides of the smokebox on Cock o' the North. The un-streamlined LNER Pacifics and Gresley V2 class have distinctive raised covers on the smokebox over the outer ends of the superheater header. Thanks to the egg shaped cross section of the smokebox and boiler cladding on the original P2s, there is no need for the raised covers."

During No. 60163's boiler overhaul at Meiningen they will fit a larger pattern of flexible stays and make improvements to the corners of the foundation ring. In due course, any beneficial modifications will be applied to the boiler for No. 2007. The CAD on the P2 website shows the extended smokebox


Foxy