If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

The Steam Ban around York

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by james miller, Aug 8, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,414
    Likes Received:
    2,729
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chester le Street County Durham
    Has to be said, if NR spent a bit more time with lineside vegetation clearance, much of this would not have happened.

    How many times does the ECML stop due to tree branches, close by debris etc..., getting attached to the knitting, in high winds, speed limits etc...the blame for that falls squarely at his door.

    As Fred Kerr posts quite rightly, the Yorkshire Towns and Cities being hit hardest by his attempts to stop steam, are now cottoning on to the story, with the inevitable consequences.

    1 way ticket to South Africa required??????
     
    charterplan, sowerbylad and Drysdale like this.
  2. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    351
    I don't know all of the ins and outs of the West Coast and NR NE issues but Clan Line's run yesterday, when often worked very hard with such a big load, surely underlines that, if similar weather conditions prevail in the North East around York, then the problem preventing steam running up there surely cannot be related to fire risk! I guess it will all come out in good time, but those suffering zero steam just now have a right to expect those who can sort it out, to do so quickly. It really seems to have dragged on for too long. If I have a major issue in my office we call in the key parties, sit around the table, and thrash the issues out. Is there any evidence that this is happening up North?

    Nick

    PS I also posted this on the British Pullman section.
     
  3. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,068
    Likes Received:
    20,778
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Three thoughts on this whole business.
    1. Nothing is ever exactly as it seems, especially when information is second hand at best.
    2. When a set of circumstances suddenly takes on an unexpected dimension (and the nature of the NE ban this year seems to fit that scenario), then there is usually some 'tipping point' event that has triggered it, rather than any particular party taking a 'bloody minded' attitude.
    3. There is nothing better at bringing things to a head than public opinion from beyond those directly affected (and the views of local businesses/communities is a new factor this year.)

    None of the above moves things on and nothing said on here will do that either. But I think we can reasonably assume that there may be more on this to come. My worry is if any of this business reflects badly on West Coast's ability to carry out its wider steam operations.
     
  4. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    4,799
    Likes Received:
    349
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tilehurst, Reading, Berks.
    Basically what MarkinDurham said #97.
     
  5. 26D_M

    26D_M Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,416
    Likes Received:
    1,681
    Posts #94 to 100 seem to be missing.
     
  6. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    4,799
    Likes Received:
    349
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tilehurst, Reading, Berks.
    There for me on page 5.
     
  7. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    35,446
    Likes Received:
    9,144
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Several posts from a member attempting to circumnavigate his ban have been removed from view.
     
  8. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    8,345
    Likes Received:
    946
    Does NR York area cover the Line to Whitby? as it is in Yorkshire, if so why are they being allowed to run steam on NR rails
    Double standards springs to mind here
     
  9. alastair

    alastair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    748
    The "no steam"dispute is said to be between WCRC and NR, no other TOC is involved,and I think the NYMR are their own TOC so to speak? Not WCRC anyway.
     
    Drysdale likes this.
  10. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    It should be remembered that within NR there are many who would like to see steam eradicated, or at least restricted to routes with few other trains. They have good reason. NR is persistently failing to meet punctuality targets and they are having to take the flack. Steam jolly days out that end up delaying other services, cause havoc to the timetable and encourage camera carrying trespassers are something they could very much do with out.
     
  11. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,121
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Ha, ha, ha. There are plenty of routes that see no steam but where punctuality is appalling.
     
    david1984 and Drysdale like this.
  12. hatherton hall

    hatherton hall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,057
    Likes Received:
    351
    What a totally negative posting. Steam has been running on the mainline in preservation since 1971 - who can ever forget the return of the Bulmers train and King George V - magical. That is 43 years and there is now more steam than anyone could have imagined on the mainline. Steam mainline charters are part and parcel of the modern day railway and will be for years to come and so attempts like this to talk down mainline steam like this and suggest that many at Network Rail would like to see it "eradicated" is appalling and untrue. The majority of NR divisions welcome steam and rightly so.

    Nick
     
    Waterbuck and Drysdale like this.
  13. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    35,446
    Likes Received:
    9,144
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    You seem to forget the other small problems that seem to occur quite frequently causing 'minor' delays and annoyance to passengers.
    Wires being pulled down on ECML.
    Diesels on freight sitting down at frequent intervals.
    Services just not running due to staffing probloms.
    Services running late being terminated before their destination in order that they can set off back to recover time. LM do this on the Birmingham/Liverpool services usually at Crewe or Runcorn fairly often.
    No doubt other can think of more like this.
     
    Waterbuck and Drysdale like this.
  14. alastair

    alastair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    748
    What a daft post. NR are given a massive subsidy by the UK taxpayer to run the rail infrastructure,and are providing paths for charter trains,steam-hauled or otherwise,is a tiny part of what they are paid to do. Have you any evidence at all that steam hauled trains break down more often than other trains? It was a freight train that broke down at Reading last week causing hours of chaos,perhaps it would be a good idea to "eradicate" freight trains as well? The number of minutes delay caused by failed steam trains must be infinitesimal compared with delays such as dewirements on the ECML,and other train failures.
     
    richards, Waterbuck, RalphW and 5 others like this.
  15. AndyP

    AndyP New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Civil Servant
    Location:
    Yeadon
    A more pertinent question to ask is: Are NR regions totally autonomous? Since WCRC are able to run steam out of Preston / Carnforth is it acceptable for NR national Manager (Mark Carne) to allow local route managers to manage thier areas like feudal feifdoms. Surely time for some some talking to by the Senior bosses. I would suggest Toto Wolff but he's a bit busy with his own internecine strife at present.
     
    oddsocks likes this.
  16. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    35,446
    Likes Received:
    9,144
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It's called delegating, I would like to think that local managers know their area and the fine detail of it's day to day running, to have to refer to someone more senior for every little decision it a recipe for disaster. Too much control from those at head office just does not work, it leads to the local manager resenting the interference from above, and time wasted waiting for the top man to come out of a meeting to make an urgent decision whilst not knowing the full facts.
     
  17. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    5,610
    Likes Received:
    3,512
    But part of the art of delegation is deciding when to let things run and when to jump in. This is an open access system in which, like it or not, accredited TOC services which are fit to run in pre agreed slots are allowed to do so and it is part of NR's mission to facilitate that. So, if there has been a breakdown of trust at local level, crystallised in a dispute which cannot be sorted at that level, it needs to be sorted at another level. Otherwise they'll both end up in front of the ORR and that won't be good news for anybody.
     
    Drysdale likes this.
  18. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    4,799
    Likes Received:
    349
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tilehurst, Reading, Berks.
    What are the legal implications of the "free/open access" which are being implicated? Surely some law/contract is being broken.
    If that is the case then surely NR, or even this manager bloke involved should be taken to court.
     
    Drysdale likes this.
  19. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Messages:
    35,121
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Occupation:
    Training moles
    Location:
    The back of beyond
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    There's delegating and there's delegating. If said area manager has managed to cock things up royally then time for senior management to step in.
     
    5098, Desert Songster and Drysdale like this.
  20. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I am not familiar with the contract for running trains on the network but I would imagine that there are any number of clauses regarding performance that could be invoked should people be so disposed.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page